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buboymp64

posts: 4

Apr 08, 2007 12:34 PM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

Quite Scandalous I must admit.   I promoted Pif4P but stopped because the system owners made several promises and were not able to keep them in a timely manner.   Whether mr. Birdsall has delivered on his "$100 minimum first month income guarantee" or on all the $100 in adwords system rotator leads (definitely the only leads worth having iwth this program) I do not know.

What I do know is that I stuck around long enough to realize that I could not promote the program in good conscience.   They just didn`t have it together enough at that point. Things may have changed, they may have started delivering on their promises but my experience was that they were far more interested in adding Success University to their program than in delivering on earlier promises:

   - that those who signed up for the Response Magic autoreponder would receive 1 month of rotator signups (they later backpedaled on this I think and said that the MEANT 100 {pretty much worthless} Traffic Oasis leads).

   - that they would guarantee a $100 per month income from the program and would send leads to promoters until they met that income. This was intended to entice people to upgrade the autoreponder, upgrade in GDI, and upgrade in Traffic Oasis.   Broughton and Birdsall wanted to make sure everybody at least broke even on these expenses.

   - there may be others but I don`t remember them any more.

In all fairness, the training is OK and I still tell people to signup and read the material back there. After all, its Free.

I have no wish to be mean. I know a lot of people enjoy the program training and it has given hope of internet success to a great number of people. Unfortunately the way it is set up is just not quite righteous.

buboymp64

posts: 4

Apr 08, 2007 12:35 PM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

The BBB can supply you with a reliability report of an organization with whom you may wish to do business. We can also provide you with a list of member companies by industry.

Additionally, you can request job estimates from member companies and provide commendations for companies whom you feel are especially deserving of recognition.

Company Reports are created and maintained by the Manitoba BBB office. Information reported includes time in business, complaint history, and information which may be obtained from the business or through special Bureau investigations.

This is where you can search for a reliability report on a company or charity.

Business Name	Paul Birdsall
Address	Unit J - 1631 St. Mary`s P.O. Box 53
	Winnipeg, MB R2N 1Z0
Business Start Date	July 12, 2000
Principal	Paul Birdsall
Phone	(204)953-3700
Fax	(204)895-1039
Member?	No
Website	www.supermarketking.com
File Open Date	December 1, 2000
Type of Business	Work-At-Home Cos.

The information in this report has either been provided by the company, or has been compiled by the Bureau from other sources.

Customer Experience


Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau
due to unanswered complaints and a pattern of complaints alleging misrepresentation in advertising.

These firms have been advertising for individuals to research unclaimed bank accounts out of their own home, making money from your own home by sending out postcards, name list processors, a TV and movies monitoring program, a newspaper clipping program, envelope stuffers and grocery coupon processors. Most recently they have been advertising for people to make money by leaving voice mail messages. While the company states, "the coupon worksheets & instructions will be sent to you with your package. Just complete the simple coupon worksheets and mail them back to us", we note that the company`s definition of a grocery coupon processor is "one who gathers coupons from various avenues and submits them to us after they have been properly sorted as to our instructions". Please note that the company will "pay you 10% of the face value of the coupons" and that "you can make 1 submission per week only. (and) Only 50 coupons per code number." We further note that the "one-time, fully refundable registration fee" is refundable only with the return of their materials "if you are not satisfied with the amount of money you are earning after completing you first 10 worksheets". While the company indicates that they "have included information on a company (they) are currently working with" that they "have thoroughly investigated ...for your protection and can assure you that the TV Monitoring position is genuine and that the company is legitimate", the cheque and materials are to be made out to GW Marketing at Greenwave`s address. Thus, it appears to be the same company. This would appear to be what is termed as a "work-at-home" scheme.


The Bureau processed 59 complaints about this company in the last 36 months.

	none of those were processed in the last 12 months.

Detailed Complaint Statistics (Last 36 Months)

Complaint Concerning	Total
Advertising	4
Misrepresentation	45
Non or Slow Delivery	5
Other	5

Complaint Closed As	Total	(last 36 months)
Judged Resolved	1
Assumed Resolved	1
No Response	57

A company`s size, volume of business and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB. The number of complaints filed against a company may not be as important as the type of complaints, and how the company handled them. The BBB generally does not pass judgement on the validity of complaints filed.

The information in the table below represents a comparison of all companies in the BBB database in the same type of business as Paul Birdsall. Companies may engage in more that one type of business. The percent of time the business engages in a type of business is not accounted for. The BBB database consists of businesses located in Manitoba and N.W. Ontario. There is no known industry standard for the number of complaints a company can expect. Please keep in mind, the company`s size, number of employees, volume of business and number of transactions may have a bearing on the number of complaints received by the BBB.

# of companies with no complaints in the last 36 months	42
# of companies with 1-4 complaints in the last 36 months	2
# of companies with 5-25 complaints in the last 36 months	3
# of companies with 25-99 complaints in the last 36 months	2	Paul Birdsall is in this range.
# of companies with 100+ complaints in the last 36 months	0
# of companies in the BBB database in this type of business	49

Additional Business Names


	Autoguard
	Birdsall Company
	Birdsall, Jackie
	Birdsall, Paul
	BM Connections
	BreakOut Media
	Canadian Coupon Connection
	Cashflow Magic
	CashFlow Systems
	CDC of Canada
	CFM 101
	Clipping Program
	Coupon Distribution Centre
	Coupon Distribution Centres of Canada
	Dansereau, Jackie
	Dansero, Jackie
	Datalinx
	Datamax Solutions
	GCE
	Global credit express
	Greenwave Marketing
	GW Marketing
	IBA
	International Broadcast Alliance
	Jackie Birdsall
	Jackie Dansereau
	Jackie Dansero
	Mr. Coupons
	National Locator Network
	National Media Company
	NTA Vacations
	One Source Information Centre
	OSIC
	Pay it Forward 4 Profits
	Pay-it-Forward 4 Profits
	Payitforward4profits.com
	Payten Data Services
	Payten Publishing
	Payton Publishing
	PMB Ventures
	Rebateprocessing.com
	SM Secrets
	Smart Choice
	SMK
	SMK Direct
	Supermarket King
	The Supermarket King
	The Wealth Matrix
	Thunder Valley Marketing
	TV Commercial Focus Group Program
	TV Monitoring Program

Additional Addresses


	3310 Portage Avenue, PMB 20142
	Winnipeg, MB R3K 2E5
	1853 Grant Avenue,
	Winnipeg, MB R3N 2B1
	1481 Waverly Street
	Winnipeg, MB R3T 0P7
	55 Deer Run Drive
	Winnipeg, MB R3P 2L4
	P.O. Box 41056 RPO Markham
	Winnipeg, MB R3T 5T1
	RPO Grant Park,
	Winnipeg, MB R3M 3X3
	PMB 37055 RPO St. Vital Ctr
	Winnipeg, MB R2M 5R3
	214-905 1st Avenue
	Lethbridge, AB T1J 4M

Additional Phone Numbers



	(204)275-2080

	(204)489-9840
	Order Desk
	(204)953-3704
	Message
	(204)989-3910
	shipping
	(204)953-3705
	Domain Registration numbe
	(204)487-3337
	admin. website
	(204)953-3706
	Distributorship
	(888)279-8129
	membership ext. 25
	(866)953-3703
	Toronto distributor SK16
	(866)953-3709
	MWF 2-5pm CST Contact lin
	(204)953-3707

	(204)953-3708

	(204)895-1039
	gce reg. Jackie
	(403)851-1652

Company Management

Key management personnel include:


	Jackie Dansero
	Alieta Frances
	Jeremy Hunt
	Robert Douglas
	Adam Blitz
	McKenzie Davis
	Janice Peterson
	Robert Smith
	Barbra Thompson
	Jackie Dansereau
	Jackie Birdsall

Additional File Information


	WITH ANY COMPANY OPERATING AS A SUBSIDIARY, YOU SHOULD ASK FOR THE NAME OF THE FIRM, ITS MAILING ADDRESS (NOT SIMPLY A MAIL BOX DROP) AND THE NAMES OF THE PRINCIPALS. ONCE THIS HAS BEEN OBTAINED, YOU SHOULD VERIFY THIS INFORMATION WITH THE COMPANY, THE PROVINCIAL COMPANIES BRANCH AND THE BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU IN THE FIRM`S SERVICE AREA.
	Additional Websites: www.opportunity-depot.com www.smsecrets.com www .cashflow123.com www.tv.opportunity-depot.com

Educational/General Comments

WORK AT HOME SCHEMES

THE TYPICAL PATTERN OF THE WORK AT HOME SCHEME IS THAT THE CONSUMER RECEIVES INFORMATION BY WAY OF A CLASSIFIED AD IN THE NEWSPAPER, A FLYER THROUGH THE MAIL, AN UNSOLICITED EMAIL OR AN INTERNET SEARCH. THESE OFFER HUGE EARNINGS WITH NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY BY WORKING OUT OF YOUR HOME. TRADITIONALLY, THERE HAVE BEEN TWO TYPES OF WORK AT HOME SCHEMES - STUFFING ENVELOPES AND ASSEMBLING PRODUCTS. MOST RECENTLY, THERE HAS BEEN A PROLIFERATION OF WORK AT HOME COMPANIES ADVERTISING FOR UNCLAIMED BANK ACCOUNTS TRACERS, WORKSHEET PROCESSORS, GROCERY COUPON PROCESSORS AND LABEL ADDRESSORS. THERE ALSO EXIST DIRECTORIES WHERE THE CONSUMER MAY PURCHASE A LIST OF COMPANIES OFFERING SUCH SCHEMES. ALL WORK AT HOME SCHEMES HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON - THEY ALL REQUIRE AN UP FRONT FEE. CONSUMERS SHOULD BE REALISTIC WHEN CONSIDERING THE LIKELIHOOD OF SUCH AN OFFER AND ASK THEMSELVES; "HAVE YOU EVER HAD TO PAY MONEY TO A COMPANY IN THE PAST TO RECEIVE EMPLOYMENT?" WITH THE STUFFING OF ENVELOPES, BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU EXPERIENCE HAS REVEALED THAT, AFTER RESPONDING TO A STUFFING ENVELOPE SCHEME, THE CONSUMER USUALLY EITHER RECEIVES NO REPLY OR INFORMATION INSTRUCTING THEM TO PLACE AN AD SIMILAR TO THE ONE THEY HAD RESPONDED TO. THE RESPONDENT EARNS THEIR MONEY BY REQUESTING OTHERS TO SEND THEM MONEY FOR INFORMATION, AS THEY HAD INITIALLY DONE. KEEP IN MIND, THAT RECRUITING OTHERS TO SEND MONEY FOR NO EXCHANGE OF A VIABLE PRODUCT OR SERVICE IS KNOWN AS A PYRAMID SCHEME. PYRAMID SCHEMES ARE A DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE COMPETITION ACT AND ARE GENERALLY DEEMED TO BE ILLEGAL. SCHEMES FOR ASSEMBLING PRODUCTS AT HOME ALSO REQUIRE THE APPLICANT TO SEND AN UP FRONT FEE TO PURCHASE MATERIALS. IN THE END, THE COMPANY RESERVES THE RIGHT TO REJECT THE ITEMS DUE TO POOR WORKMANSHIP, THEREFORE, THE CONSUMER MAY END UP KEEPING THE PRODUCTS. OTHER WORK AT HOME SCHEMES INDICATE THAT THE COMPANY WILL PAY YOU FOR FILLING OUT THEIR SIMPLE WORKSHEETS, PROCESSING THEIR PRODUCTS, SEARCHING FOR BANK ACCOUNTS OR ADDRESSING LABELS. EXPERIENCE HAS REVEALED THAT, IF THE CONSUMER RECIEVES THE PACKAGE, IT IS USUALLY NOT AS EXPECTED. FURTHERMORE, WHEN THE TIME COMES FOR THE COMPANY TO PAY THE CONSUMER FOR THEIR WORK OR REFUND THE ADVANCED FEE, THE PAYMENT IS USUALLY NOT FORTHCOMING. THUS, THE COMPANY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO SEES ANY MONEY. ULTIMATELY, CONSUMERS SHOULD EXERCISE EXTREME CAUTION WHEN SENDING MONEY IN ADVANCE OR WHEN DISCLOSING PERSONAL INFORMATION TO AN UNKNOWN SOURCE. WHEN SEARCHING THROUGH THE CLASSIFIED SECTION FOR EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITIES, BE SUSPICIOUS WHEN AN AD OFFERS UNREALISTIC EARNINGS WITH NO EXPERIENCE NECESSARY. IF YOU ANSWER AN AD OFFERING YOU HUGE PROFITS FOR SOME AT-HOME WORK PLAN FOR WHICH THERE IS SUPPOSEDLY A GREAT DEMAND AND WHICH WILL REQUIRE NO EXPERIENCE ON YOUR PART, YOU WILL PROBABLY WIND UP LOSING MONEY INSTEAD OF EARNING IT. IF IT SOUNDS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT USUALLY IS.

As a matter of policy, the Better Business Bureau does not endorse any product, service or company. BBB reports generally cover a three-year reporting period, and are provided solely to assist you in exercising your own best judgment. Information contained in this report is believed reliable but not guaranteed as to accuracy. Reports are subject to change at any time.

Search Again

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Business Name	< name="SearchText" value="" ="text">
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Reliability reports are available, as always, by writing, phoning or faxing us at:

Better Business Bureau of Manitoba
1030B Empress Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba R3G 3H4

Ph: (204) 989-9010 or
Toll Free: (800) 385-3074
Fax: (204) 989-9016
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All rights reserved.
The name Better Business Bureau is a registered service mark of the Council of Better Business Bureaus, Inc. Only those non-profit organizations that meet CBBB standards and are approved for membership in the CBBB are authorized to use the name Better Business Bureau.

dunpag

posts: 1

Apr 21, 2007 1:22 AM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

You are in a position where I was 12 years back. I was new to web world and it was like in Hollywood where every other actress looks more beautiful and gorgeous. I could not resisit myself and jumped into many programs hoping to earn the next day. I forgot to breath and worked several hours a day. It never worked because I did not do the basic learning. Hard work alone can’t bring success. You can’t copy other person’s success. You need to innovate ideas to outperform.
There are few basic which I learned in that course of time.

1) Do learn before you are into it. An online business is not as easy as it sounds. It is again not as difficult as you believe.

2) Do your own research about any program you come to know about.

3) There is no fast and easy money out there.

4) What you would like to do is very important factor. Choose a business where your passion is.

5) Do not get impressed by the testimonials and bank statements you would often come across on websites because the business may not be of your kind.

6) Above all, if your lady luck keep smiling on you, nothing can stop you to reach to your goal.

-------------------------

Spread the word about UNICEF`s lifesaving work for children.

danthemanuk

posts: 3

Oct 10, 2007 1:10 PM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

I`d been using the Profit Wildfire system, an almost carbon copy of PIF4P, for 6 months to build my primary business but my results were limited until I switched to MFF.

The thing about Profit Wildfire or PIF4P is, you`re mainly helping the website founders to build their mailing lists. I mean, visitors to my website would go onto my mailing list, (as I paid the monthly fee for the Response Magic Autoresponder), but anyone visiting the site of one of my sign ups would be completely off my radar if they didn`t join any of the various programs within, but ALL new signups from ALL the replicated sites would go onto the list of the website founders regardless.

So you`re not exactly duplicating what they`ve done at all unless you copy their site and make one for yourself.

Which I guess is why the founders of Profit Wildfire did just that.

But thats a big job and I have a life to lead. I mean, this making money online business is supposed to be on autopilot right? I should be making money in my sleep not spending every waking hour slaving over a hot keyboard.. right?

So I dropped it for a couple of months to see how the businesses I had up and running would do without my constant pushing.

My primary business with Nutronix nose-dived and crashed, only my businesses with GDI, Direct Matches and Traffic Oasis held their own. But without a system in place, how long would that last?

Thankfully, I discovered a similar free system with the same purpose, building a primary business, using GDI and Direct Matches up front, but using listbuilders which eliminating the problem above, and no monthly fees for an autoresponder.

http://www.myfortuneformula.com/r/dantheman

Much better.

abdelrahman80

posts: 8

Dec 06, 2007 11:06 AM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

Although I have joined PIF4P franchise system but I do completely agree with Mr. CraigL. Using logic and sound of reason he answered all questions maybe asked about PIF4P.
I am afraid that I had become NAIVE according to his definition above. Mr. CraigL! have you met anyone else who undertook a bad experience with PIF4P.

-------------------------

AbdelRahman
http://trackthatad.com/?i=137822/f-pif4pabdou-startupnation

OTTAWA

posts: 1

Apr 14, 2008 11:14 PM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

Hi,

I`m new to the "Nation"...just joined...I was just about to start paying for the Payforward4profits GDI and Traffic Oasis...when I happened to stumble upon this website and this thread while doing my "due dilligence"...this is my first post on the "NATION" forum.

I have read all 19 pages of the posts to date in this thread and in the end...I see that nobody has posted since Dec/07 on this topic...so now it`s mid April/08...this thread seems to have died!

I am still undecided...I have been looking at the back office of Payforward and I think that it is one of the best "how to get started" for a newbie into MLM (or franchising if you will)...that I have seen so far...but I am not stating that it is "the best" on the net...just that it`s the best I`ve come across to date...it seems pretty thorough...

I like the idea of Affiliated marketing better though, it seems far more realistic if you take the right course(s) ...but it requires a consistent cash outlay...I was hoping to start with something like Payforward to generate some cash to fund my "affiliated marketing" aspirations...but now, I am not so sure...

Yes I know that there are a million programs on the internet to investigate and most of you reading this will say "try this one or that one out!"...but how do I know what is going to work and what is legitimate? ...I have a small budget...but alot of time to devote to getting something up and running and doing the necessary groundwork and then "tilling the garden" is a given with me on an ongoing basis...so I am going to offer the following insight that I have gained from investigation of Payforward4profits:

It`s a crapshoot...you can sign up and do everything they tell you to do...but if no-one signs up for GDI much under you...or theTraffic Oasis leads aren`t very good (I`ve read on other forums they are questionable at best)...then using the autoresponder isn`t going to do you much good...you still need go-getters working the program to make money on the downlines from both of these products...so really it seems to me that the key to making this program "gel" is to have a really solid "primary business" idea that will really be the source of your income...

Now, I have signed up under Paul Birdsall and not spent any money yet to join the first two programs (GDI & TRAFFIC OASIS)...I wanted to talk to him first...however, the email contact he provides is admin@payforward4profits and I read on their forum (that is now closed and locked by the way since Feb./08) that this address is only for submitting a support ticket if you are a paid member and can`t get answers on the FAQ`s...or by using their forum...or gleaning it from the volumes of information provided in the back office or on those particular websites (GDI & TRAFFIC)...in addition to this...the phone number he provides to call him at...answers with a message that his voice mailbox is full...and it seems to be constantly full!

Then I read that he is now at another email address in a post on this forum and then read all of the negative stuff that was written about him in a few of the really long postings herein...so obviously, my "hey, I ain`t that dumb" B.S. detector is going off all over the place...

So I have written Mr. Birdsall an email at his new address and sent him a link to a "less than flattering review" that was also posted earlier in this thread and it is also on Scam.com...and asked him why I should sign up and spend money on this program when his contact information is not even accurate on the very Payforward website I signed in on and got him as my direct sponsor!...I have also written his partner Mr. Broughton (?) and asked him why I should join up with a co-founder as my sponsor when his contact information is dubious...I only did this today, so I will be interested to see if either of them reply...and if so... what they have to say (if anything).

Since this thread seems to be all but exhausted, I would be interested in hearing from any current Payforward members who were posting a year or so ago and extholing the virtures of the program, as to how they are doing now with it and if it is still as good as they were saying last year.

I am learning quickly that if you can`t get the people who "wrote the book" to even keep their own webpages current with contact information...then one should really not proceed in the event that they do not provide satisfactory answers to legitimate questions...wouldn`t you agree?

In closing, I would like to state that I think what you can get by signing up for free and going into their "back office" and following the step by step process is terrific for a "newbie"...but past that ...I am extremely skeptical about trying to invest money in the program (no matter how small the amount)...I have the feeling that I will be flying on my own and having to get my answers from other sources ...and this is not what it is supposed to be about!

I will post again here if I do get a response from either of these fellows and let you know how that went.

Thanks to any readers who may be interested in posting here again with any helpful insights that you can provide.

RSchlieper

posts: 323

Apr 30, 2008 11:09 AM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

OTTAWA, you`re so right and, by the way, good luck with getting a response to your email from Paul. As for GDI, this program can make you money but as with any other program it depends on how dedicated you are on sending Ads (paid or free) but GDI, I believe, is already so saturaded on the Internet that you may only be waisting time (as I have to date).

Traffic Oasis - I started making money with this program but when my credit card expiration date changed T.O. cancelled my account without notice even though I had sent them an email about my exp. date change. I could not make the change on my T.O. site, I lost some good revenues, oh well.

I`ve moved on and although I still have Ads out there for PIF4P, I`m no longer actively using the program but you`re right about PIF4P training, it is very helpful for beginners.

RSchlieper

-------------------------

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kido

posts: 1

Jun 06, 2008 8:01 PM ET Quote Report Abuse

Points: 0 Vote

I am new to payit4 so I dont know much about this and I haven`t get any benefit it from too. But after signing up for GDI in payit4 I joined theSpiderWebSystem.com/kidolimp
Spyderweb also promote GDI since I had already a GDI -(which I opened at payit4), I haven`t open another new account for GDI in spyderweb. I continued with my existing GDI account so to join spiderweb didn`t cost me a penny.

Also, I got additional 11 income streams totally free. So, so far I had better experience with spiderweb.

Thanks

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payitforward4profits - Home based business or Scam?

Customer Experience

Detailed Complaint Statistics (Last 36 Months)

Additional Business Names

Additional Addresses

Additional Phone Numbers

Company Management

Additional File Information

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