I saw some people`s profiles that their business are associated with payitforward4profits.com / 3stepsecret.com.  I was curious and checked out their site.  Then I did some searches on Google to find out more about the business.  I was troubled by some of the information found on the internet.  I am posting some of the links about the business.  I am not smart enough to know the validity of the claims (from both sides).  Maybe someone here can enlighten me.

http://www.paul-birdsall.info/
http://www.netmarketingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=97037
http://www.wahm.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=197473&PN= 1& (or http://tinyurl.com/s2s7u, if the link doens`t show up properly)

Netuser,

Husksters have been around since man began. Remember, if it sounds to good to be true, it probably is. There is no such thing as get-rich-quick, IMHO. If you want to be an entreprenuer, find something you love to do. Make your advocation you vocation. Define your definiteness of purpose. Plan. And work the plan. Success is not an overnight thing. It takes work. Forget the husksters. They will never go away and there is a sucker born every minute.

"First comes thought; then organization of that thought, into ideas and plans; then transformation of those plans into reality. The beginning, as you will observe, is in your imagination."  ~ Napoleon Hill  

R@

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Richard Arnold · Key Concept Writers · Business Communication: The "Key" To Success· Law of Attraction Blog · Life Ain`t Brain Surgery Blog

Lesson learned long ago:

In the California gold rush days, there were countless people who were gonna get rich fast. They were gonna find gold in them thar hills!

Y`know who made the money and got rich? The people who sold the wagon wheels, bags of flour, cooking pots, sieves, clothes, boots, tents, hammers, and so forth. The suppliers.

Sure, one or two people would strike it rich, and then hordes would run over there to get rich too. But the stories (legends) of those super strikes was enough.

On the one hand are the legends you see on get rich doing nothing sites. On the other are the biographies of todays and yesterdays` millionaires. I tend to spend my time reading the biographies, not bothering with sites that promise the moon. :-)


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Craig Landes
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Defining the undefinable. "There are 10 kinds of people in the world---those who understand binary numbers and those who don`t." - Unknown

International Society of Curmudgeons

Aww man, Well i hope it`s not a scam, because i signed up for it, and Craig, i`m not trying to get rich quick, But i am trying to get rich, i HATE going to work and clocking in every morning, and having people tell me what to do, I have read everything, Robert Allen, Napolean Hill, Robert Kiyosaki, *grin* even Suze Orman, I`ve joined a very reputable network marketing business, i;ve been in it for a year, i see others making money before my eyes, but it`s coming real slow for me, honestly, i am getting impatient, i`m young and i have a goal, and time is passing and it seems as if i`m not making much progress, so i grab at alot of things hoping to grow my business.

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**ONLY LOSERS PAY FOR LEADS** Discover how average people with no marketing backgrounds are getting prospects to pay them....NEVER PAY FOR TRAFFIC AGAIN!!! www.payitforward4profits.com/melzii

Here`s a principle of statistics: Just because many things are a scam, not ALL things are a scam! :-)

More importantly, in order for something to work as a scam, it has to first be formulated on something close to worthwile. It`s like a good lie begins with a grain of truth.

As long as you`re cautious, skeptical, and have some critical thinking going on, even if it turns out to be a scam, you`ll have learned something useful. I`ll bet most entrepreneurs have at least ONE experience of signing up for stamping envelopes, selling something, or MLM efforts. :-)


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Craig Landes
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Defining the undefinable. "There are 10 kinds of people in the world---those who understand binary numbers and those who don`t." - Unknown

International Society of Curmudgeons

I do not know why you call Paul and Joel programs a scam?

They offer established MLM companies and a step by step Internet Marketing plan. I been in MLM industry for 15 years and see nothing wrong with PIF4P.

It`s a wonderful and organized internet marketing system.

No, I`m not calling a particular program a scam. I`m only saying that it takes some critical thinking before jumping into one of these kinds of setups. I think that was the initial topic idea, to do some research before just going for an ad.

I agree that not all MLM offerings are a scam, and that`s my main point. Although many things can be something, not ALL of those things are that way. Finding a legitimate opportunity is great. ConservativeJim`s comment provides some external credibility, also part of the initial research.


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Craig Landes
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Defining the undefinable. "There are 10 kinds of people in the world---those who understand binary numbers and those who don`t." - Unknown

International Society of Curmudgeons

Great!  So how long have you been with PIF4P?  As stated in my original post, I found some negative information on the website about PIF4P.  I am just confused about that information and your "testimonial".  So if PIF4P is indeed not a scam, then could you check out the urls that are in my original post and address their "accusation"?  I am a potential customer.  But I want to feel confident about what I will be buying, right?

As a saying goes, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, you can be reasonably sure it is a duck.  At least that is what the information on those urls are saying.  So do please tell me why it is not a duck.

Thanks.

What exactly did you read that upset you? I love law, please show me the evidence.

PIF4P is a simple how to, market effectively, on the internet. The marketing strategy is a step by step approach that will establish internet exposure. The affiliate companies featured on the site are well established.

I love reading The Wall Street Jounal, for months the paper has been writing about backdating of stock options. Evidence.

Is Apple computers a scam company?

Backdating of stock options is a crime. But Mr.Jobs said he did not know backdating of stock options was illegal.

 

 

 

Interesting problem: I spent some time in the above links, ending up at the Better Business Bureau, with an "unsatisfactory report" based on customer experience. So what, exactly, constitutes proof?

Has there been an investigation leading to indictments? Apparently not. Are there public-record lawsuits finding in favor of the plaintiff? No, not that I saw.

Suppose I go visit an auto dealer, get a "feeling" of some negative sort, then ask around. I speak with various friends, then with some acquaintances, and finally with complete strangers. Let`s say that only 50% of those I speak with tell me they have a high opinion of the car dealer---one out of two. But the other half tell me they had a bad experience, don`t like the dealer, and wouldn`t recommend them.

Is that "proof" the car dealer is a disreputable business? Yes...their reputation is poor. But is it proof they`ve broken the law in such a way that will hold up in court? I don`t know. But realistically, I don`t care either.

I don`t HAVE to bring my business to the car dealer. It`s my choice, completely up to the mixture of subjective AND objective reasoning. I tend to begin by trusting anyone and anything completely, then as various information enters the mix, either continue to trust or begin to distrust.

The variable is how quickly I`ll act upon finding someone new, or how much thinking and analysis I`ll do before acting. To be "naive" carries the implication of trusting completely and acting immediately. Skepticism, analysis, and research all act toward increasing the time factor between thought and action.

The law is the minimum set of requirements for a society`s behavior. It isn`t the single deciding factor as to whether or not someone is acting in a moral fashion. Critical thinking means that each of us, individually and independently, makes a decision about our own actions and the actions of others as they interact with us.

From what I read in the initial links, I would be disinclined to do business with Pay it Forward. That means, to me, that I`m starting from a place of distrust. Because it`s my decision, the burden of "proof" would be on the PIF people to set to rest my anxieties and distrust. Since they don`t know me, that isn`t going to happen.

I may be losing out on a wonderful opportunity. Okay, that may be the case. Then again, I may be avoiding a problem. It comes down to my style of living, my decisions, my subjective "feelings," and my being a potential customer.


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Craig Landes
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Defining the undefinable. "There are 10 kinds of people in the world---those who understand binary numbers and those who don`t." - Unknown

International Society of Curmudgeons