Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

I`m not upset with anybody.  Take it how you will.  If the shoe fits, wear it - if not, don`t.  Also, if I am selling a pig in my bag, it is a pig in my poke.  The method/recipe for Coke might have been patentable at some point - it just won`t be patented because it is more valuable as a secret because the patent application would teach the whole industry how to make the drink.  With the current method of making the drink, it has probably been on sale for more than a year, so that boat has sailed.

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James Lindon, Ph.D. Patent Attorney
Lindon & Lindon, LLC
Cleveland, Ohio
Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, Pharmacy Law, Litigation
[this is not legal advice - provided for discussion only]
Intellectual Property for the Individual and Small Business: Identify, Protect, Enforce, Defend.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
http://www.LindonLaw.com

 

Hey Craig,

Thanks for the advice. I guess I`m looking to have a company that is in the industry run with it because of the ease, as well as limiting or removing any possible legal problems down the road. ( people getting in their eyes, or swallowing it, etc. etc. etc. !!! ) However I`m kind of on the fence because I don`t think I can patent this idea, and I`m concerned that any company can "steal" the idea and just leave me out to dry. ( am I really going to get into a court case with a large corporation with a product that I don`t produce myself etc. ? ) So maybe you`re right, I may need to get a good attorney and lock down what it is I can or can`t do. I`ll need a place to make up the package, or at least somewhere I can buy the containers and do it myself. Ahhhh ! There`s so much  I don`t know !

One reason for my interest in this topic is that it isn`t about using an existing product, all that much. I mean, of course it is, but there`s a much more broad application of reasoning here, when you get into the underlying thoughts.

"Do I want to start a business and take on all the work and responsibilities? Should I avoid creating a new product and business because of the growing climate of lawsuits, taxes, regulation, and adversarial conditions?"

That`s what this topic is showing. It`s an argument between the desire to create something versus the "world" attempting to put creativity in a box and keep it locked up tight. Only "the elite" and those "worthy" of having a business "should be allowed" to start a business.

And control their own destiny, thereby getting out from under the authority of "the world."

Which do you want: Your freedom.....or to be regulated? How much is convenience worth to you?

 

Craig,

You make some good points, but the other factors working here are my not knowing how to proceed, how not to get ripped off, and how much money this is going to cost and if I have it. ( since I don`t know the amount ! )  I was trying to find out through this forum if what I proposed to do was legal, however I haven`t been able to ascertain that. So I`m not much further along than I was before. I will have to find an attorney that will give me a free consultation, as I know many do. If it appears that I "should" be able to do it but it will take some investigation, then I`d be o.k.. However I can`t justify paying up front to find out that what I`m looking to do is obviously illegal. I`m sure I`m missing something, maybe that`s not the way it works in this area of the law. I`ll check it out and see. It wouldn`t be the first time I`ve been wrong !!

 

 

Well, I think you`re getting a little bit ahead of yourself, is my main point. :-) Not in a bad way...just where you have to stay focused.

Yes, I get the idea that you want to know if what you`re proposing is legal. Yes, from this topic you`ve found out that "probably" it is legal. But there`s a far larger issue here.

On the one hand you lean toward having someone else make this product (package it) so you can go to the store and buy it. Then, thinking about it, you "wish" you could make some money by handing off the idea. Frankly, nobody cares. Ideas are a nickel a dozen.

Then you have the possibility of taking on the "burdern" of starting a business. It`s not a burden unless you see it that way. Many entrepreneurs see it as a terrific adventure.

So what I was trying to say earlier is that you FIRST have to decide: Do you want to start a business and sell this cleaning product, which likely can be done in such a way as to be legal. Or, do you want to buy the product someone else is making.

The issue of your not knowing what to do, how to do it, etc., is all well and good, but you can *learn* how to do that.

However, if you block yourself from that learning by making a "drop-dead" issue of whether or not this is legal, you`ll go around in circles. Get the Proof of Concept first. Then talk with a lawyer about a real example, with real ingredients, in a real situation. That way the lawyer can advise you about a specific, real situation.

Nobody`s going to pay someone for an idea. It`d be nice, and plenty of people come through these and other forums believing that an undeveloped, untested idea is worth money. No, it isn`t. That`s what a proof of concept is all about....having a *real* thing, not just an idea for something. See?

Craig is a bloody genius, although probably not bloody.

I also tried once to market a product based on another product in hair care. The manufacturer went out of business and I spent months trying to locate this manufacturer to be able to purchase 50 gal. drums of leave-in hair conditioner.  If you add 1/4 cup leave in hair conditioner and add almost 1 qt. of warm water, and spray it on wrinkled clothes, the wrinkles fall out.  Does not matter, works on rayon, cotton and even silks.  (The idea was given to me by my (lazy) ex-husband) but I still use the formula today.

Downy brought the effect to market and now you can by it on the shelf as a wrinkle release, for around $10.00.  They must be selling some because it is still on the shelves but you don`t see any competition.  Maybe the price?

Any regrets on my part?  No. I am so happy I did not go into business with my ex-husband. Wrong business partner.

Weigh all the aspects, if they weigh heavy enough on the plus side, go for it!!

 

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interesting story.

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James Lindon, Ph.D. Patent Attorney
Lindon & Lindon, LLC
Cleveland, Ohio
Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, Pharmacy Law, Litigation
[this is not legal advice - provided for discussion only]
Intellectual Property for the Individual and Small Business: Identify, Protect, Enforce, Defend.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
http://www.LindonLaw.com

I`m still wondering what this pet product is... 

 

Hey all,

Sorry, still can name the product ! I did hear back from the manufacturer of the product. ( I e-mailed them that I had an idea ) They sent me an e-mail stating that they don`t accept ideas from the public, but then sent me a letter with a form to fill out with the details of my idea. However it is not a confidentialilty agreement, and states specifically that it isn`t one. And that I can only sue for $5,000 max etc.etc. So I`m not going to be sending that back in and give them my idea for nothing. I`m currently trying to find out the formula for their product, if I can`t get that I`ll have to contact a local patent attorney. I may look at one of these invention houses. The problem is that I need a clearer "plan" before I can move forward, and since I`m in the stage of the "legal" stuff, I really don`t know what to do. Everyone I have spoken to in this area hasn`t been able to give me any idea of how much it will cost to find out if what I want to do is do-able. I can get them to tell me it costs $475 for the patent search, then we`ll take it from there. ....or it`s $200 per hour. I don`t begrudge anyone their right to earn a living, however as a Realtor , everytime someone is interested in me selling their house I have to work up a CMA and tell them my price opinion, go over my advertising and marketing plan, etc. All before I even know if they are going to be my client. Then if I do get the listing I have to invest my own money advertising it and get paid only after it sells. Now I`m not expecting this scenario with an investment house or patent attorney, but it would be nice for someone to be able to say " o.k., we do the search first, if we can`t find it then we do this, and it will most likely cost about this much, etc.". At least I would know what to expect.

 

Ken

Ken, I`m not sure if this would work, but there are independent labs around and I wonder a) how much it would cost, and b) if they could do a chemical analysis of the product and tell what`s in it and what proportions?

(I`m thinking of shows like CSI and plot-lines where detectives send stuff to private labs.)