CraigL: Author, freelance editor/writer, philosopher

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Nickname:	CraigL Batavia, IL United States
Website:	www.grumpy-people.com

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CraigL

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By CraigL 1282 Days Ago
0 points
There seem to be many people wondering about integrity, honesty, truth in advertising, and so forth. All these are moral values and ethical principles. Yet, at the same time, few people seem to make a conscientious effort to plan out their ethical strategy to the level of their business planning and development. So here`s the question: How do YOU account for business ethics? What`s your stance on soft versus hard value, profit margins and moral obligations?

By CraigL 1249 Days Ago
0 points
In another thread, the dicussion taught me that there really isn`t a formal way to determine the real market price for a product or service. "Something is worth only what someone is willing to pay."

Yes, we can formulate costs and add profit, but that`s not really going to prove anything. Only when it goes to market will people buy it or not.

Several people indicated that you have to try different numbers, and see what`s the response and reaction. ElidS mentioned using focus groups to find that "sweet spot" number.

Couldn`t we have a running topic/thread where anyone could put up a picture, perhaps use their profile space, and a description of an idea, new or in development, or still in the creative stage, and have people suggest a price? Would that be helpful to you?

CraigL2006-10-14 2:42:17
By Kathy 1249 Days Ago
0 points
I think that it is a good idea. If people voted what they would expect to pay it might give an average and would be beneficial to the person that posted the pic and a short description.
It would probably be best if the poll listed about 5 or so prices of what people might pay. I think that it could work :)
By CraigL 1249 Days Ago
0 points
That, or it would be a text thread. A person would list their item, reference a picture or few, and ask, "What would you pay for this?" Then posters could simply state a price. It wouldn`t pre-judge the item and allow complete freedom for the "market" to set at least a range.
By westnova 1249 Days Ago
0 points
Pricing is a very complicated area because of perceptions as to what you are offering and what people want. Just "value" pricing alone is a whole feild of study. Then you go into "exclusive" and you have an entirly new field of pricing. Just remember that you can lower your price more easily then raising them and less sales at higher prices can be more profitable then more sales at a lower price. Have fun with that one. Wes
By CraigL 1248 Days Ago
0 points
I think what this would be isn`t so much a cut-and-dried forum. It`d be a way to get a preliminary "guess-timate" of what to price something. So for example, Christina happens to have offered an image of a ring, as a photo she was proud of.

What would you pay for this ring?

The reason for the forum is to get an idea of what business-minded people would pay for the ring. We here wouldn`t only figure out what we think we`d pay, we`d also bring to the forum estimates as to what other markets might value the ring to be.

Additionally, I wouldn`t be a bit surprised if there were community members who are wholesalers, jewelry retailers, artist, and so forth, all of whom would bring a number to the same forum.

CraigL2006-10-15 0:34:58
By ElidS 1247 Days Ago
0 points
Think that is a pretty good idea, one should also specify if the person that is giving his/her opinion is somebody who is likely to use/buy the product and/or knows what he/she is talking about or not. For instance, I just voted for a price on an clay vase, the price I would expect such a product to sell for, but, that is not a product I would ever buy and I have no knowledge of the subject. If you show me a diamond ring it might be worth 1,000 bucks but I may only expect to pay 150 for it. Then again, the diamond industry goes to great lengths to keep the pricing artificially high.

[edited to add] One more thing, that link to the ring takes me to a page that one needs to subscribe and log in in order to see what you posted.
ElidS2006-10-16 13:39:48

Show 6-6 of 6 discussions

By CraigL 1191 Days Ago
0 points
I`m not skilled at CSS, and have trouble using a "DIV" tag, but I get the concepts of HTML tables.

I personally like viewing a Web site where the content goes across the entire monitor. I use a 19" LCD at 1280 resolution, but lots of people use a 17" CRT, in the 800 resolution range.

The way many sites work seems to set a 900px table width (or other way of constraining the width). They leave the right edge either white, or have some generic color or graphic to fill in the background. But you quickly note that the right margin is less than the monitor edge.

Other sites also constrain the width, but put the content in the center of whatever is the monitor. On my monitor, that looks weird. There`s a huge blank left and right "column" margin.

The reason for the question is that I`d like a repeating set of links on the right-hand side of a site. But can that even work if you use a percent-of-width type of system?
By starpointe 1191 Days Ago
0 points
Craig,

Yes, it can work. Check out www.glish.com/css for some examples (I think the example your looking for is http://www.glish.com/css/2.asp). Jakob Nielsen (the web know-it-all) recommends designing for about 1000px wide now. Most internet users now can see that without having to scroll sideways.

Full screen pages look nice...usually but the problem is that you can`t count on browsers rendering them the same way, especially when you start dealing with people having different screen resolutions. Either your main content will end before the side bars leaving empty white space and ads (sometimes) falling down the sides, or vice versa (which isn`t as bad).
By CraigL 1190 Days Ago
0 points
Ah...l guess I hadn`t thought about the resolution differences, just the screen size. So it sounds as if something like "tables" would still be best, where the right-hand column exists (one way or another), but the overall right margin is stopped at 900px or thereabouts?

I kinda sorta understood the code example, and saw the %-of-width. I`m supposing that width can be set in other ways than a table?
By TrustBuilder 1190 Days Ago
0 points

I`m not skilled at CSS, and have trouble using a "DIV" tag, but I get the concepts of HTML tables.

CraigL, I use to do some work using tables because I understood how to use them. But as I started burning up more time updating web content, I bite the bullet and learned what I needed to about CSS. A big help for me was using a CSS editor at first. You can download a free one at www.westcv.com. They use to have a simple little tutorial that walked you through the many of the basic tools of CSS including how to use the DIV tag.

As for screen size, I really dislike using sites where you have to scroll horizontally to read the text. CSS and using percentages allow you to optimize the real estate of the viewers’ screen.
By Chuck 1190 Days Ago
0 points
Generally tables are frowned upon as a main site design tool, as they mix content and presentation in the same code - CSS provides a means to effectively manage the layout and presentation of your entire site, and make a single change to a file that can update that entire site.

You`ll often see fixed widths on sites that rely on advertising, as those ad sizes are definitely fixed, and variable rendering of pages can create huge headaches.

So as far as the poll is concerned, it needs a third option: "it depends"
By CraigL 1190 Days Ago
0 points
I actually do understand CSS, as I learned "styles" long ago, when they were introduced in WordPerfect. It`s rather that I want to delegate to a pro the Web design. I`m not really that interested in doing the coding myself, but I`ve learned that if I know what "can" be done, it`s far easier to have an intelligent discussion with someone who can make it happen.

The biggest problem I`ve noted with tables is word-wrap in paragaphs associated with images. On a wide monitor, the words look one way, then different when they`re compressed on more narrow screens. (I assume images stay the same size, or can you tell them to also take a percent of margins?).

If I`m going to do a layout, I don`t want it to change except in a "relational" way, sort of like resizing an image to "percent of original" rather than a specific size.

What I`m hearing is that CSS can accomplish both the relative to screen margins, AND something like "maintain aspect ratio" for the overll page layouts?
By Chuck 1189 Days Ago
0 points
That`s right Craig, you can accomplish either of those layout goals with CSS.
By starpointe 1189 Days Ago
0 points
Absolutely. You can accomplish the same formatting effects with CSS AND your site will work better for people with disabilities AND it will rank better in the search engines!

Why it`s better for accessibility
Browsers read tables like a book, left to right, top to bottom. That doesn`t sound like much of an issue except that if someone with disabilities is browsing with a screen reader, that means if you`re using a two column layout for your page and each column has a few rows in it, they may be hearing it in the following order:
- (row 1 cell 1) logo
- (row 1 cell 2) navigation
- (row 2 cell 1) sub-navigation
- (row 2 cell 2) some content
- (row 3 cell 1) more sub navigation
- (row 3 cell 2) more content (see how this can get annoying?)
Why it`s better for search engine optimization
Search engines look at what your h1, h2, h3, etc. tags say in them. While you can use these tags with regular HTML, most people don`t because they`d rather control the font, size, color, etc. Once you start using these, the search engines will have a better understanding of what your page is about.
By InactiveMember 1189 Days Ago
0 points
With respect to width: It`s better to use a controlled width because people cannot easily read very long lines of text. Actually. People read long lines just fine ... their eyes just have trouble finding the next line. Of course, if you use a fixed width, margins do remain in most cases. This is actually easily handled if you implement javascript style switching or if you provide alternate stylesheets for browsers such as Firefox that can perform the switching for you. It`s extra work ... but probably just a little.

CSS is better for site design for many reasons. While CSS isn`t strictly object oriented in the same sense as c++, using CSS, especially with strict XHTML, allows you to build pages that essentially perform like object oriented software. This of course delivers most of the benefits of CSS. It`s also really important to use a valid DTD and make sure that your pages validate within the constraints of the DTD.

I`m going to make an uncharacteristically snarky comment about CSS evangelists because, while the comment is snarky, it`s really important. I`ve noticed lots and lots of beautiful CSS work that will never scale. Or it might scale out to hundreds of pages but only if you`re willing to go in and make changes on every single page. Sounds like fun, right? Using div elements isn`t going to help a site scale into the hundreds of pages. There are a lot of web designers and CSS evangelists who would do wise to keep their mouths shut about matters such as accessibility and SEO until they take a few rudimentary courses on data structures and at least investigate the concept of scalability. Most of the CSS evangelists really have no idea how to build anything that scales past a few pages because they`ve never built anything really huge with hundreds or thousands of pages ... like a completely HTML/CSS-based online help system.
By starpointe 1189 Days Ago
0 points
CookieMonster`s right. If you know you`ll be scaling out to many pages, make sure you design for that in the first place. The simpler the layout, the better and the less you`ll find yourself going in and fiddling with individual pages.

Ryan
www.starpointemarketing.com
Website Development, Hosting, and Marketing Consulting
By CraigL 1188 Days Ago
0 points
When I first started word processing, I typed....like using a typewriter, `cause that`s what there was on computers. Then along came MultiMate, with boilerplate and macros. I got interested in the macros. Then came WordPerfect with styles.

Best example I read back then was how by changing a single style definition in a 1,000 page document, the entire document would change as soon as I hit Enter. To accomplish the same thing with a macro would require first developing that macro, then running it, then "hoping" that it would correctly find exactly what was programmed into it.

I get the idea of styles, and my intent is to use CSS (through a developer) just the way I would use it in a 1-page article or a 1,000 page book. My main issue has been, until reading these very helpful points, not with regular, but with relative margins.

The one thing, say, Word styles can`t accomplish is to adjust according to a user`s monitor. I believe Word itself scales to monitors, but I can`t prove that. Browser languages CAN do that, and it`s an amazing sort of thing. :-) If I had any doubt previously about doing CSS in a site, you guys have resolved it. Thanks.
By InactiveMember 1188 Days Ago
0 points
Something else important to those of us with poor vision.

The user, in FireFox or IE can change the size of the text if a site is properly designed. [I have poor eyesight. I`m constantly adjusting text sizes and constantly frustrated at sites that lock the text to make the worthless designer`s crappy work look pretentiously elegant. Ah ... nothing says elegance like text I can`t read! In fact I routinely send hate mail to companies about this issue. You would be surprised by the unhelpful responses I get ... no you wouldn`t be surprised.] Use a fixed width design and please make the text size user-controlled by implementing proportional fonts in the CSS code.

If you are unaware of the text resize features, try the View: Text Size option in I.E. or hold down CTRL and spin the mouse wheel!
By scobiz 1181 Days Ago
0 points
CraigL, would you mind sharing your web address? Perhaps we can offer additional good advice to advance your efforts.
By Terrence 1181 Days Ago
0 points
My opinion is less is more. Use the middle of the screen and do not make people scroll. Nothing more annoying to try and scroll around to find something on a webpage.

If you want to use the entire screen. The best thing to do it dynamically size the content of the page to that of the browser, check out digg their new site updates include this feature. Try resizing your browser and see it in action.

To the comments on CSS, it is a really powerful to design tool. However, it is really cryptic and not easy to pick up with a reference. Check out
CSS: The Missing Manual By David Sawyer McFarland. This book breaks it down the best I have seen.
As to scalability - use PHP pages not HTML. PHP with CSS gives you powerful good looking pages, the blog engine wordpress uses this combination. You can configure the CSS to really make the look unique and still have powerful processing with the php functions.

Questions let me know.
By Pokerman 1165 Days Ago
0 points
A very good place to see the potential of css is http://www.csszengarden.com At least I was impressed.
By CraigL 1165 Days Ago
0 points
Sorry, I wasn`t paying attention to this thread. I don`t have a Web address yet, as I`m working more with Kathy at the moment. But I have a model of what I`d like to see on my own in the future, and this screen-width issue was a problem.

I`ve done very limited HTML layout and coding for eBay ads, using Nvu. I`ve tested the layout in Firefox, and use an extension where I can view the same page in IE. As such, I immediately saw the fairly radical differences in only those two browsers! I have no desire to validate the site myself, in all browsers, and that`s why I`ll use a developer/designer and not do it myself.

I looked at the csszengarden site, and what`s nice about it is exactly what I want---that regardless of the increase or decrease of the font size, things pretty much stay where they`re supposed to stay. AND the site goes edge-to-edge on my 19" LCD panel. That`s what I`d like, and I think for the moment I`ll go with the CSS.

Yes, I understand that a huge number of sites use fonts too small for me to read and enjoy. I also don`t like the design layout on a lot of sites, but that`s a separate issue---the design layout. The font variability is the biggie. But I also don`t really much care for the centered layouts with something blank to either side.

I`ve also seen that although I can use a table or limit the content to a center area, that doesn`t solve the problem of different wrapping when I increase or decrease the font size.

Show 6-10 of 16 discussions

By CraigL 1161 Days Ago
0 points
There are Those Who Shall Remain Nameless who want to take over the world with coffee. We here at the United Republic of Tealand have launched an initiative to hold the Orange-Pekoe Line!

We may be a small nation, but by gosh we are a powerful nation!
By stonesledge 1161 Days Ago
0 points
i am a coffe girl, but i love earl gray and stash`s brand of chai green tea.
By keycon 1161 Days Ago
0 points
Craig,

Love the coffee ... albeit, very good, strong coffee. However, being from the south, don`t take away my sweet tea either. Passionate about both. No choice for this selection on your poll. Just wanted to make this "amber" clear.

R@
keycon2007-1-10 22:11:44
By Joel 1161 Days Ago
0 points
Coffee in the morning, carbonated drinks if necessary in the afternoon & evening, tea when I`m sick.

So, to get awake, I voted for coffee.
By ujeans 1161 Days Ago
0 points
I don`t understand coffee. How can something that smells so wonderful taste so bad??

Tea rules!

ujeans2007-1-10 23:19:32
By keycon 1161 Days Ago
0 points
How `bout some coffee poetry:

Poems to awake the senses

R@
By jillybeans 1160 Days Ago
0 points
I agree with ujeans . . . coffee smells good but tastes nasty -- except as mocha almond fudge ice cream.

It is TEA FOR ME! Orange Pekoe line dancing anyone????

jillybeans
By CraigL 1160 Days Ago
0 points
Jillybeans and ujeans, I believe we have positions open for Sec. Treasury and for Vice President? The jobs don`t pay beans, but I believe you could have them in the bag if you wanted.

I do have to admit I`m concerned---deeply concerned---at this SEEMING (and temporary) majority of coffee drinkers. I`ve contacted National Institute of Health and the AMA, and expect to hear back from them shortly. We obviously have a tragic and hidden epidemic running rampant.

No worries, though. The South shall rise again, in the form a iced tea remedies and emergency relief for those who`ve been taken over by the Evil Bean Coffee!
By Fusion7 1160 Days Ago
0 points
Yes, yes! Orange Pekoe or any green tea or any mild black tea (especially Stash) will provide a greater duration of energy without the evil coffee highs and lows!
By conciergelady 1160 Days Ago
0 points
I have a wide collection of organic and decaf teas which I drink from now and then/ But my favorite beverage and first one each morning is a mocha cappechino and lately in the middle of the day. It gives me that pickup which I need. I did give up coffee for 2 months went through the headache withdrawal period. But alas I am back to coffee now - cant seem to stay away from it.
By bthomd 1160 Days Ago
0 points
What about Tisane? Isn`t that the fruity "teas" that some people drink. I heard that if it`s not from a Tea plant it`s tisane? Can anyone clarify before I vote?
By Kathy 1160 Days Ago
0 points
I didn`t vote because not sure which way to go.

I am mixed which means that I believe in equal opportunity. You asked what you use to wake up to. You didn`t clarify as far as morning or after a nap.

I use coffee black to wake up after sleeping all night. When I take a short nap I drink a cup of tea-ususally Tetley.

I also enjoy in-between it all iced tea that I make.

Bthomd: I don`t know the answer either

Kathy2007-1-11 23:44:8
By cjpeeps 1159 Days Ago
0 points
Ummm, not trying to make this a contest or anything, but there are 9 pages in the post about cofee and only 2 here. Looks like your little revolt is not going so well.
By CraigL 1158 Days Ago
0 points
CJPeeps, everyone knows that (shhh.....coffee drinkers....) are manic lunatics, wired to the hilt with massive hits of the killer-drug caffeine! Okay...so sure, tea has SOME caffeine....but in a much nicer form.

As such, like bluegills after crumbs of bread, mention the word (shhhh....coffee....) anywhere, and they careen in from the outposts of the frontier.

Tea drinkers, being far more gentile, would never stoop to such silliness, and post casually, having far more important work to do saving humanity from the ravages of addiction.

:-D
By bthomd 1158 Days Ago
0 points
Here here, I concur!
By cjpeeps 1157 Days Ago
0 points
I must admit that this is a much calmer response than I expected. Guess that tea does have a calming effect.

Sweet dreams!
By CraigL 1156 Days Ago
0 points
ROFL!! Zounds....! Hoist by my own Capt. Pickard! LOL!

Cjpeeps, here`s a cuppa for ya... (I`ll even make it camomille!)
By jillybeans 1155 Days Ago
0 points
My little baby and I are sharing ... she`s having the milk (actually, formula) and I`m having the tea. Tea for me non-stop. I only change the type. C`mon tea drinkers . . . it`s okay for you to say "TEA RULES."

jillybeans
By CraigL 1155 Days Ago
0 points
EggZACKLY! "Tea Rules!" ;-D
By RepMessenger 1155 Days Ago
0 points
TEA RULES! Here are some of my teaware and teas for your pleasure and
envy!!!

My tea maker I use every morning!

My favorite tea I am drinking right now - anything rooibos!

A Great Place to Chat about Tea!

Ok, just trying to build some tea momentum!
RepMessenger2007-1-16 23:58:47
By cjpeeps 1154 Days Ago
0 points
Wow, can that be used for coffee? That`s a cool tea maker!
By CraigL 1153 Days Ago
0 points
The thing about tea drinkers is they`re calmer, take time to smell the fine brew, enjoy the savory taste of a nice tea, and don`t get all wired like Those Whose Drink Must Not Be Mentioned!

As such, momentum isn`t necessary, only Constant Comment. Eventually, as the (........................coffee drinkers.....................) run zooming off into some other topic, the world will realize that we tea drinkers remain, reliable, calm, clear-minded, and helpful. :-) Kinda like Boy Scouts, now that I think about it......
By MediaFairy 923 Days Ago
0 points
I`m not afraid to say TEA RULES! I do not drink coffee ... can`t abide the taste or the odor - can`t even be in the kitchen when my husband brews a pot. Yes, I`ve been coaxed into trying `gourmet` and flavored varieties, lured like an innocent by statements like "Oh, you just haven`t tasted good coffee." Unfortunately, even after adding sugar, chocolate and milk to mask the repugnant taste of the coffee, I could still tell there was java lurking in my mug. So, what`s the point then? LOL Truthfully, in the morning I like an ice-cold Diet Pepsi for caffeine and the effervescent wake-up. Otherwise it`s iced tea, unsweetened, thank you, and most any brand BUT Lipton. A pitcher of freshly brewed tea in my refrigerator is as much a staple as milk or mayo. (Instant tea? Not a chance.) I suspect true tea lovers love tea in its most basic form: tea. No sugar. No creamer. No fancy added flavors.What about you coffee lovers? Is it really the coffee you love? Or is it mocha-cinnamon half-caf latte?
By rossb 923 Days Ago
0 points
Oh it`s the coffee, true coffee lovers know that it is only in the undiluted, untainted by sugar or creamers that the flavor of such a truly amazing nectar becomes the experience that God intended it to be!!!

I do occasionally enjoy coffee in a dessert form like an orange chocolate mocha, but only if it is the dessert...

Now, having said that, I also have a true appreciation for an amazing cup of tea, hot or cold depending on my mood and the time of day. When it`s a really hot day, there`s nothing more refreshing than a cup of Plantation Iced Tea, made with Black Orange Pekoe brewed and then cooled, in a 12 ounce glass add ice to about 3/4, then add the smallest squeeze of fresh lemon juice, fill with tea to about 5/8 full (just over half), then top it all off with Unsweetened Pineapple Juice, add a spear or triangle of fresh pineapple for garnish, drop in a straw and enjoy!!!

This is of course an in-exact recipe since every glass I make tends to be a little different, so personalize it to your taste...

R-
By CraigL 922 Days Ago
0 points
Some people say that the best way to experience (.............coffee............) is to add a tablespoon of A-1 Steak Sauce to each cup. I`m inclined to agree.

Tea, on the other hand, usually requires very little modification.
By MediaFairy 922 Days Ago
0 points
Ross, your description ALMOST makes me want to give coffee one more try. LOL
By DGoodin 921 Days Ago
0 points
Coke (-a-Cola) adds life!!

Personally, I have to add so much sugar to coffee, that soda seems healthy. The phrase "I like a little coffee with my sugar" comes to mind...

Tea?... just my personal opinion?.. one word. BLECH!

To each their own, I suppose.

Show 6-10 of 27 discussions

By CraigL 1118 Days Ago
0 points
I figured I`d put a little poll up there too, since this is such a controversial topic. You can vote more than once.

Pro Flash: This is one of the more sophisticated tools available to Web sites. It makes the site stand out, looks professional, and attracts attention. It makes the site different from other sites. There are really useful and important things Flash provides to almost any Web site.

Anti Flash: All it`s good for is movies. Although a movie might provide certain types of sites with something useful, it`s more of a distraction. People want to get in and get out, find what they`re looking for, and do other things.
------------

Okay...we know the two factions, and the arguments. So here`s a list of real benefits to using Flash. Even better would be some real-world examples where NOT having Flash really left the site empty and missing something important.
1. ??
(Bias note: I don`t like Flash, wouldn`t use it, and have an open-enough mind that I`m willing to be convinced it serves some purpose other than style.)

CraigL2007-2-22 2:25:39
By nhgnikole 1118 Days Ago
0 points
There`s actually some really cool applications for Flash that most people wouldn`t think of. For example, we`re making some widgets for chumby right now. So when I finally get my own chumby, my widgets will be ready to go!

I like Flash for portfolios.
And online games.
And children`s sites.

I don`t think my opinions fit in your poll! You are looking at it from a business-site standpoint. Flash is good when you are trying to make the website itself an attraction, with interactivity.
By CraigL 1118 Days Ago
0 points
So mostly for looks. "....trying to make the Web site itself more attractive...?"
By twc238 1118 Days Ago
0 points
On the site I am about to put up, I plan on using a small flash on the splash page to enhance a short moviefeaturing my main product.
I think it makes your site just that much more professional.
By hostclick 1118 Days Ago
0 points
In general I`m anti-flash but thats mostly because the people who use it don`t know how. Flash has some very underused / new features:

- Flash video (think YouTube) and I`ve been told the flash media server is worth its weight in gold if your serving media content.
- Flash paper (new) but looks really interesting.
- Flex - I`m really interested to see where this goes as it allows you to easily create consistent UI`s that act like desktop apps and have sophisticated backends (via action script / coldfusion / java).

All depends on how its used. Those sites with 9 minute 4 mb flash intro`s that you can`t escape easily would be an example of someone not doing it right.

Take a look at these:
http://www.tufat.com/script2.htm
http://www.jeroenwijering.com/?item=Flash_MP3_Player
By CampSteve 1118 Days Ago
0 points
My site is almost entirely Flash. I love Flash. As an artist, it serves my
purposes for a portfolio site really well. Flash is very conducive to my
style and transferring the look of my art into a web experience. Without
it, the snowshoes would just hang there and not walk on walls. The fire
in the hearth wouldn`t burn. The deer wouldn`t stick its tongue out.
Believe it or not, those extraneous details are important to my site. Do
they help sell my posters? Do they help get me clients? I don`t really
know. But I get nothing but positive comments on those animated details
all the time. And I mean quite frequently. If my viewers enjoy the
CampSteve experience, then perhaps that enjoyment turns into
opportunity for me. It`s part of the unique way I`ve branded my site. I
couldn`t have done it without Flash. That being said, it does have its
drawbacks. And I don`t see my application of it useful for most kinds of
websites.
By iouone2 1118 Days Ago
0 points
I like flash too... but my problem is the content not getting indexed. I think this is a major loss. I do have to say... since I am not using it because of the indexing situation... I don`t have to learn another program. Do you realize how many applications you have to know to be a good graphic designer nowadays!!!?
By nhgnikole 1118 Days Ago
0 points

I like flash too... but my problem is the content not getting indexed. I think this is a major loss. I do have to say... since I am not using it because of the indexing situation... I don`t have to learn another program. Do you realize how many applications you have to know to be a good graphic designer nowadays!!!?

There`s ways around the indexing problem. With one way ... most people just don`t bother though because you`d basically have to pay for making 2 sites.
But there`s other alternatives.

And if you think that`s bad, do you know how many programming languages you have to know to be a good programmer? I end up writing most of the Flash Actionscript for my designer.
By vwebworld 1118 Days Ago
0 points
There is a place for flash use it with the understanding of how it fits with your target market/viewer.

An all flash site does have some issues, but indexing does not have to be one. A simple fix is just to add a list of links to all your pages at the bottom of your home page (in html) - of course have a title and description too.

~Roland
By nhgnikole 1118 Days Ago
0 points
A simple title, description and some links in html really isn`t going to help your page be listed properly.

You`re better off with some php/cfm magic.
By CraigL 1118 Days Ago
0 points
Could we say that "Flash is best used in places where video is important?" True or False?

(I do agree that where Flash or Flex can provide interactive appplications that would be useful, if that`s what I`m understanding of the concept.)
By TwilightPics 1118 Days Ago
0 points
Flex 2 and Actionscript 3 are changing Flash and it`s usefulness as we know it today. It`s no longer just for making cool looking sites, but now you can build some serious applications that are not only extremely stable across ALL platforms but will also look great too. Similar to AJAX only ALOT more stylish and you avoid the browser compatibility issues you face with it.

Even better, with Adobe`s Apollo release coming soon, you`ll be able to make applications that can also run right off of a users PC.

So, I`m the one guy who voted for real substance and function! If a web developer lacks experience, typically they will end up making an OK looking site with very little usefulness or function at all. Now, get someone with experience in there, actionscript 3 will take current designs and function to a whole new level.

Conclusions: Flash gets a bad rap because of the lack of experience from the developers using it. So users have a bad experience and assume flash is worthless (rightfully).

TwilightPics2007-2-22 19:31:38
By CraigL 1117 Days Ago
0 points
I remember when there was the huge argument about JavaScript. Lots of people felt it was bad, wouldn`t work, meant nothing, and was just show. Eventually it settled down, and the way-down-deep premises began to take hold.

I get the idea of interoperability. I understand that Open Source isn`t about a free OS or applications, but about a true standard across all platforms. From what I`m reading out of TwilightPics, it seems this is the situation with Flash.

If Flex and this Actionscript are components of Flash, I`d revise my initial opinion of Flash. I also understand that for now, people have to download a plug-in or add-on to run Flash. But then look what Microsoft did with tabbed browsing.

The only reason Flash isn`t built into all browsers is because everyone who has a browser prefers to keep things destabilized and nonstandard. Even so, market acceptance and pressures eventually bring about a settling, if not a formal standard. Heck, look what happened with Adobe Acrobat! That was "never going to be accepted." :-)

CraigL2007-2-23 1:28:14
By onlineeater 1117 Days Ago
0 points
I do not like all flash sites. I think it is useful in a banner or to scroll some images. On a small scale it is appropriate. I avoid all flash websites unless there is something I really need.
By octaneTom 1113 Days Ago
0 points
I want to echo TwilightPics sentiments - they are right on the money. To dismiss Flash is to dismiss the future of not only the internet but of online and rich media application development.

Craig - to clarify a few points: Actionscript is the programming language built into Flash that allows developers to create anything useful with the program. It`s the only way to get beyond basic, tedious tweening. As of Actionscript 2, it`s beginning to morph into a true Object Oriented Programming language like C++. Actionscript 3 will take the platform further when released this year.

Adobe Flex is a new product allowing developers to extend what Flash can do. For some time now, you`ve been able to pull dynamic data into Flash and combine it with PHP/ASP scripting to create dynamic sites, manage content and create interactive experiences that couldn`t be created without it. Flex is going to take that further and allow developers to use Flash to create more fully realized Rich Internet Applications (RIAs—you`ll be sick of this acronym in about 3 years).

To answer the question in the subject of your post: here are just a few recent, very useful web applications built in Flash, or Flash + Flex that I`ve stumbled across that were pretty amazing.

Italy`s Train Station system scheduler
http://www.viaggiatreno.it/viaggiatreno/vt.html

Picnick
• Online photo manipulation tools similar to basic functionality of Photoshop
http://www.picnik.com/app

3D Live Stats
http://www.3dlivestats.com/

Yahoo! Mail
The Yahoo! Mail Beta is being built in Flex

The NY Times frequently uses Flash to build great info graphics. I liked this one in particular quite a bit:
http://www.nytimes.com/ref/us/20061228_3000FACES_TAB2.html

The Smithsonian`s online "Arago" exhibit
http://arago.si.edu/
By CraigL 1112 Days Ago
0 points
Tom, :-)
I think you`ve made a definitive point, together with Twilight. As I said, although I had a bias against Flash, I have an open mind. I believe I`ve been convinced to change my mind.

What I think I`ve learned here is that it isn`t that Flash is the problem, but like many Web programmers have said, it`s poor implementation of a new technology. I can understand that, having seen it in other areas.

I looked at the sites you referenced, and I can see that with the right use, Flash (or its related sub-concepts) definitely can do very useful things. So I guess it`s going to be that waiting for the programming skills to get caught up.

On that topic, though, I have to say that where back in the early days of DOS, lots and lots of people jumped into programming, I see a severe decline nowadays. I`d assume it`s due to the constantly changing languages and methods, platforms, and high-speed technology development. No sooner does someone learn a language than the next update comes out.

A number of people have been discussing the next problem of society: too many needs and too few programmers. Maybe we`ll figure out a way to find apptitude early, and open up better training systems. Anyway, it looks like Flash isn`t just a movie application, but rather, a whole concept of programming and development.

Thanks all for the help in understanding it. :-)
By CampSteve 1112 Days Ago
0 points
As technology progresses and user experience standards are raised, so
are the expectations of design. Perhaps we are waiting for programmers
to catch up with the technology as CraigL puts it. But it is in my opinion
we`re mostly waiting for designers to catch up with the technology. A lot
of web developers are not artists. Those that are, often have more a
focus on the technical side of things. I think there needs to be an balance
between design and implementation of technology. The web is just
barely beginning to tap into its potential as a visual medium. Flash and
its associated technologies mentioned in previous posts are indeed
pioneering this potential.

My knowledge of Flash is pretty basic and only from an animator`s point
of view, not from a programmer`s. This thread has also exposed me to an
understanding of what more Flash can achieve for a website. Some of
those example sites listed above are fantastic. Now we need art schools
to teach this stuff as much as they do Photoshop.
By CraigL 1112 Days Ago
0 points
That`s a good idea, using Art schools as a sorting and aptitude-testing arena. As far as I know, there aren`t any nationally standard aptitude tests for music, art, writing, programming, and other "intangible" skills.

You can get them done privately, but not as part of the grade-school testing. There also isn`t much of a push for "exceptional" student capability, in the same was as for "challenged" students. Everything is still homogenized under the "everyone is equal" nonsense.

It`s probably why we don`t have the clarity of understanding that could develop the Web in a more organized way. Yet.
By ImagingBuffet 1112 Days Ago
0 points

Could we say that "Flash is best used in places where video is important?" True or False?

(I do agree that where Flash or Flex can provide interactive appplications that would be useful, if that`s what I`m understanding of the concept.)

Hi Craig:

I think Flash may be as important, or more important for sites that have podcasts and/or who want to have audio on their site. This can be especially powerful for posting testimonials from clients.

I know you had a chance to listen to this interview I had an opportunity to do with Joel Welsh, SuN Chief Community Advisor a few weeks back, and I suggested a flash page for the site so that people could easily listen to the previous radio shows and community podcasts.

Here is the link to the podcast:
http://www.startupnation.com/pages/podcasts/cp-inspired-idea s.asp

and the link to my recent post asking if others think it is a good idea:

I also have a flash player on my site (on the left side of the home page at http://www.imagingbuffet.com and I really like the company who makes the player that I use. Here is their site: http://www.wimpyplayer.com They have a simple button, a larger audio player and a video player available.

You`ll also notice on my site that I embedded a YouTube video in one of my posts, which I really like and which bridges the gap between html, blogging and flash. The Wordpress plug-in I used can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/ybfp8s

Flash is moving to cell phones and I hope that iPods will also be able to read flash formatted files.

All the best,

Andrew Darlow
By CraigL 1111 Days Ago
0 points
That`s true, Andrew, and I was thinking of your Flash media player partly when I was putting this post together. I HAVE seen some useful things done with Flash. My problem was that I didn`t really know much about the real sophisticated applications the guys above have referenced. Having seen those, my basic concept has changed.

I`d thought Flash was a plug-in, a sort of "player" in the sense of cassette or MP3 player. What I`m now understanding is that Flash is part of a programming *language,* and if I understand it, the "play" part is like "playing a macro." Yes, people use a metaphor of recording and playing a macro, but that`s almost nothing in terms of what is a macro.

All I was seeing was the little play, stop, record thing, not seeing the underlying Visual Basic editor (speaking of MS Office macros). Now, seeing the underlying editor a bit...at least a glimpse, I have a whole `nuther opinion of Flash.
By gdernie 1106 Days Ago
0 points
Flash can not be crawled there therefore I think it should only be use for videos or tutorial. Stick with the traditional html and everything should be fine in the long run.
By digitalvision313 1106 Days Ago
0 points
The cross-platform ability of Flash and it`s user base - I think at something crazy like 98% of all internet users - makes it great for delivering rich media. And as someone who works in rich media everyday, I can tell you flash has been indispensable in bridging the gap between the savvy user and the common user when it comes to delivering multimedia content.

Flash is important and should not be dismissed - it can educate, entertain, and perform marketing functions very well, especially with its` expanding into the world of dynamic content.

A good site I like and the page I link to below has "good use of flash" examples (warning: it is geared for Interactive Pros): http://www.flash99good.com/?cat=12

p.s. - as someone who works a lot with items for the iPod and the web, there is al ot of noise about Flash being supported in the iPhone and postulation on many blogs and by tea-leaf readers whether it will be or not. I look at the iPhone as a precursor to what we will see in the regular iPods - and which way the iPhone goes I think the rest of the line will, eventually. Because Apple and Adobe have worked together for so long, I wouldn`t be surprised to see a deal cut to make it happen.
By Dramagenics 1106 Days Ago
0 points
I have seen some very good uses of flash. Including the Microsoft ad to the left of my window as I am typing this. A friend of mine who is a very good flash programmer developed a web site completely using flash that looked like a radio. You could turn the knobs and flip switches just like you do on a real stereo. Very cool and functional.

I do agree though that it can be extremely anoying if over used or used in the wrong way.
By mond 1106 Days Ago
0 points
Flash Rulez!

I`ve built my business on Flash, so I`ve got to love it :).

My vision of Internet in the future is: Why would anyone ever refresh again? or The only software you need installed is the browser. All apps are running there and are built in Flash future versions of course :)
By infojunky 1106 Days Ago
0 points
Having been in the presentation industry for over 10 years, people tend to over do a good thing. I come from the school of KISS. For most people, a flash sequence takes too long to load or it`s just another commercial. But wait, how about Tivo for the internet where you can skip the commercials!
By iouone2 1106 Days Ago
0 points
If everyone always skips the commercials, new products would never be known. That`s the problem with advertising... You can`t live with them, but you can`t live without them? Wait. Maybe that`s "wives." Well, not my wife. I could never live without her. Maybe we just haven`t been married long enough.
By Seapony 1106 Days Ago
0 points

I like flash too... but my problem is the content not
getting indexed. I think this is a major loss. I do have to say... since I am
not using it because of the indexing situation... I don`t have to learn
another program. Do you realize how many applications you have to
know to be a good graphic designer nowadays!!!?

I`m primarily a print designer rather than a web designer—and I think I`m
a darned good graphic designer at that. ^_~

Hehe, couldn`t help that one, but I understand what you were implying. I
guess I don`t ascribe to the Jack and Jane of All Trades philosophy. Ever
meet a physician who knows everything...or a lawyer who practices every
kind of law...or a contractor who builds, does the painting, plumbing and
landscaping...well, you get the idea. I mean, folks expect us to know
it all, but that`s where outsourcing comes in. I don`t panic like I used to
about not knowing one or the other much because of it. If a prospective
client approaches me for a website design for example, I design the look
and just outsource the coding. So far, so good, but I know what you
mean. I do eventually want to learn DreamWeaver and Flash at some
point. If I can dedicate the time maybe even hard coding, but that`s
basically entering an entirely different niche.

This industry is evolving at a faster pace than the formal university
education system can keep up with it seems. Their curricula at this stage
of our industry`s developmental growth shouldn`t be as anemic in areas
as it is. Part of the problem I believe is politics. Bottom line, students are
graduating underqualified and for the amount of investment they`ve put
into their education it should be considered inexusable in some of these
institutions. As you can see it`s a something of a peeve of mine. ^_~

Getting back to the poll, I agree that Flash`s application is often misused.
It lived up to it`s name all too well—charming folks to the point where its
applied in ways that maybe it shouldn`t.

My personal take? Flash can be very functional as a branding tool. It
affords a more fluid range of visual "television quality" form of
communication that html (DreamWeaver, and the like) can`t accomplish
just yet. For example, I think it`s a very useful tool as a teaser page, which
I find are replacing the static "under construction" splash pages. Like a
movie teaser page, it offers a glimpse of the contents of site to come
(particularly if it`s theme oriented as many products are). And like a
motion picture teaser site, you can include viral marketing in the form of
registering for email updates or if your teaser is engaging enough,
offering viewers the opportunity to email the page to a friend. Bonus.
Hopefully I`ll be able to carve the time to finalize a teaser page of my own
very soon. I wouldn`t be averse to incorporate flash within the site itself
once it`s up, but right now I don`t have any plans to do it.

So it is very functional depending on the market and application. It only
gets a bad rep when, like any design program, it`s used as a one-stop
program for an entire layout. Folks would do well to remember that all
software at its bare roots were initially engineered to cater to a specific
need. Somewhere along the way they grew to include formatting features
similar to other programs to cross over to other markets, but because
they`re fundamentally geared towards their original purpose those added
features might really be below standard.

Case in point is photoshop, probably one of the most misused programs
out there. It`s original purpose was a raster image manipulation software,
that is, to manipulate digital images. However nowadays I`ve seen people
manipulate type there (for print ads for example) just because photoshop
included a type feature in it`s recent versions. People have attempted 3D
modeling because it integrated some filters that mimic a z axis. Bottom
line it wasn`t made for that so it`ll never be as good as using Strata3D for
modelling or Adobe Illustrator for type for example. Flash is slowly
following the path of photoshop for similar reasons.

And for those who do have all flash sites, if done tactfully I don`t see why
that should be considered a cardinal sin. There are some great flash sites
out there and if you set it on an html frame background the search
engine spiders should pick it up, no problem (www.mariaclaudiacortes.com/colors/Colors.html">here`s one that
showcases someone`s talent and is instructional to boot). Again, I`m a
print designer by trade so that`s what I assume someone meant by
indexing.

^_^
Seapony2007-3-6 17:30:9
By Terrence 1106 Days Ago
0 points

I think Flash is a great way to drive people away from your site if used incorrectly, and many web developers do not use it correctly.

Your site should never be loading.....

I agree with the podcasting example if its play on click so it does not play unless I want it to.

One interesting point will be Adobe`s Apollo release that will transform the web app world so that apps can work both online and offline. The architecture utilizes Flex and Flash.

And Michael Arrington showed a cool mp3 player he mocked up using in at the Future of Web Apps week before last. In cases where the application can run offline flash will add more to it since load time is not as important. The word is gmail will be rolled out to work offline soon.

So to the gentleman`s point of the only apps are built in the browser...yeah who needs a browser anymore. And to using Flash not to refresh the page, AJAX is way faster.
By BarbR 1105 Days Ago
0 points
I like flash for the most part, but I despise flash intros. I very rarely, and I mean very rarely, sit through those. When I see a flash intro starting, I immediately look for the "skip" button. I`m sure I miss some very cool work, however, I`m there for information, not to watch the flash intro.

On the other hand, I do like flash diplay ads a lot. Flash display ads are usually so much better than GIF animated ads, I think.

I am not a graphic designer, but since I work in advertising, I see all types of ads. As long as they aren`t invasive, they usually work. Invasive meaning "auto-activated" rich media like Pointroll and Eyeblaster that just take over the screen. However, most advertisers are aware of the invasiveness and usually make those types of ads user-enabled with a roll-over of the mouse, etc.

As we all know, the last thing you want to do with a site is drive the visitor away!
BarbR2007-3-7 8:26:38
By revanisle 1105 Days Ago
0 points
Flash is like Sales. There are great Salespeople. There are terrible ones. The bad ones get all the attention because people don`t like "being sold to" or "getting the hard sell." That doesn`t mean that "sales" is a bad thing. When you are dealing with a truly great salesperson, you won`t necessarily recognize him as such (that`s a non-gender-specific "him") because he seeks to understand your problem and help you solve it. He seems more like a helpful expert or even a coach or mentor, but guess what? That`s SALES the way it`s supposed to be. Furthermore, people don`t become great salespeople quickly - they`re dedicated to their craft and work hard for years to improve and usually specialize in some niche of the broad activity called "Sales."

Flash is the same. It`s a platform that allows for everything from ugly, purposeless Flash intros to mission-critical enterprise business applications and everything in between. All of you have seen Flash "movies" and entire Flash sites that you didn`t recognize as Flash because they were well executed - everything about them served the purpose of helping you find whatever information you were looking for. The people who created these have been in the business for many years and worked hard to improve their skills. Some became Flash designers and animators and created things like South Park and other network TV cartoons. Some became Flash programmers and created things like Flash Earth . I know there are better examples out there, but that`s one off the top of my head.

Now you add to the mix Flashpaper(essentially pdf docs that open quickly), Flash Media Server(live streaming audio/video and real-time data sharing/distribution), Flex(enterprise-class application development), Apollo (coming soon - Flex on the desktop with full web capabilities). All of these are built on the tiny Flash player that`s in your browser now (and can automatically update itself to new versions since 2004)

Over the last few years my clients have pushed me fairly deep into what`s possible with the Flash platform. Some of the things I`ve made include:
-an e-learning platform that uses Flash selectively for some content (video, animations/interactions where appropriate) and communications with a data server
-a database driven "bug tracking" and remote collaboration system for developing courseware in the above platform
-a live video broadcast system that allows my client to broadcast training and seminars via live streaming video and their clients to see the broadcast and interact with each other.
-my latest project (and the only one I can link to since it`s mine and not a client`s) is PicFindr, a free-to-use-commercially-stock-photo search site that literally searches many such sites simultaneously and compiles the results together. Go and look at it and see if you immediately think "this is a Flash site" (click "Launch PicFindr" from the main page). OK, you will right now because I haven`t done anything with the "Loading..." part yet, but the app itself is ugly. It`s not much to look at, but it serves its purpose well, even in this "in development" stage.

OK, I could go on but I think that`s enough for now. I`ll save you the rest of my tortuous rambling for another post.

revanisle2007-3-9 5:10:42
By CraigL 1105 Days Ago
0 points
Okay, we have two categories at the most basic level, and I find they seem to reflect the divided mind I have as well:
- Properly done Flash has superb application potential
- Many introductions and Web sites done in Flash are a turn off.
When I initiated this poll, I thought it would go all the way toward Flash being a waste of time, used only for video and rich media. I learned a great deal, and have changed my entire vision of Flash. I now understand enough to see that it really does have a tremendous benefit.

That being said, I visited some of the sites referenced above, and still find myself bored completely with the use of Flash on about half. The other half shows me where I changed my mind. Why so much boredom?

It comes down to people and their style of browsing. What are they looking for, what holds their attention, and so on.

So why not have the option of seeing a site in either Flash or traditional, text and graphics format? We routinely see sites where we can choose a language.

I went to the Attractor site, associated with the location above from Digital Vision. They`re (I guessed) a game design site, maybe? It looked great, for about 20 seconds, then I was bored. I wasn`t interested in the delay for me to get to the next page, or the "stuttering" feel they chose to use. I would have liked a button something like "See this site without Flash."

I`m a kind of meat-and-potatoes kind of guy. When I`m looking for information, I want it right there, properly laid out, and showing me that I`m in the right place. But I also like exploring new products, leading-edge technology, and strange concepts. It just depends on my mood. It`d be nice if some of these sites offered me the option to view them based on that mood.

All things considered, though, it seems the sites I don`t like are designed more like a TV commercial. The sites I do like are designed to provide interactive information (like that train schedule site).
By CampSteve 1105 Days Ago
0 points
I have indeed seen sites that offered non-flash basic html versions.
However, those sites put their emphasis on Flash and the html version
offers little to be desired. That was years ago and I believe they were split
up because many people just didn`t have the Flash player on their
computers. So html was merely a no-frills default. I haven`t seen this for
years though.

The thing is, Craig, that there is soooo much competition on the web that
I don`t think sites need to offer two different versions. People will
gravitate toward the kind of sites they like and are comfortable with. As
long as the web lives, there will always be users who like highly
interactive experiences maybe with fancy graphics as well as those that
prefer a simple, well laid out page.

Some get bored by extraneous graphics or video but then there are those
who think it`s cool and enticing. I, like you, fall somewhere in the middle
but probably like fancy animations more than you, not that you cannot
appreciate them as you explain.

I think it silly though for websites to offer two different versions. Does
Disney offer a theme park without the characters and "magic"? Do truck
stops also have luxury amenities? Does Macy`s also offer stripped-down
looking stores and does Walmart have other stores with designer
interiors? Most people either love Las Vegas or they hate it.

My point is that websites, like the real world, don`t need to offer both for
success. Users will like what they like. People seek out the experiences
they want, online or off.
By CampSteve 1105 Days Ago
0 points
Oh, and here`s my favorite use of Flash, animated comic strips! I
did this quite a while ago as an experiment.

Big Sky
Comictoon
CampSteve2007-3-7 17:12:22
By CraigL 1104 Days Ago
0 points
:-) I like the Disney analogy...! LOL! Excellent point.

I don`t particularly want to see a "Choose Flash or non-Flash" button on an opening page. I think you`re right, that a Web site should clearly define their target market, and go with what they know.

It was just a thought, as I did a momentary summarization of the thread to this point. Bottom line is that it`s going to depend on both the skill of the Flash programmer, AND the type of information being presented. And that information comes from the site owner---the person who wants a Web site in the first place.

I looked at the animated comic. What I realized is that I move at a particular speed, but it isn`t the same one the strip is geared to. For example, I type about 100wpm when I`m not copying something, and 80wpm when I`m copying. To me, typing doesn`t matter. I say what I want, and it ends up in text.

So too, I read quickly. I was bored waiting for things to change in the comic strip. But I know that most people don`t type that fast, nor do they read that fast. So what bores ME isn`t at all something I use as a standard of measure. The amount of writing in a forum isn`t at all a standard in measure, either.

The problem with Flash is that when it`s used in a timed event, it`s going to bore some people, and be too fast for others. However, when it creates an interactive set of events without a time (other than load time), it works nicely. Maybe that`s what I meant about the two types of pages.

I find myself on so many sites wishing the damn thing would move along faster! I`d like a way to bypass all the pre-timed nonsense and get on with it. But I know lots of other people find the timing "just right," to borrow from Goldilocks.

:-)

CraigL2007-3-8 3:26:3
By revanisle 1104 Days Ago
0 points

I find myself on so many sites wishing the damn thing would move along faster! I`d like a way to bypass all the pre-timed nonsense and get on with it. But I know lots of other people find the timing "just right," to borrow from Goldilocks.

That`s a great point and illustrates one of the subtler aspects of "good Flash design" or good design in general - and that is taking into account the user experience. Like you said Craig, people move at different speeds, so your site/movie/whatever needs to allow for that. Giving users that level of control adds a layer of complexity, but if you add "how will different people use this?" to the list of things to think about at the very beginning of a project, it`s more likely you`ll find a way to accomodate them. There are many Flash pieces out there that are otherwise excellent but blow it in this area.
revanisle2007-3-8 10:4:57
By CampSteve 1104 Days Ago
0 points
I totally agree. I think most of us universally hate into videos. But
someone must like them... uh... I guess. And that`s the point of having a
`skip intro` button, to allow for that choice. But I still don`t like it when
the vid pops up in the first place.

My animated comic strip is too slow. It was my first Flash piece as I
was just learning the basics of the program`s animation abilities. I posted
it for fun since it`s a very different "useful Flash application" than most of
what has been posted. Intersting though how it prompted you to think of
how time relates to websites.
By CraigL 1104 Days Ago
0 points
Exactly. Even poor examples of something have a value in that they prompt questions and answers. That comic strip wasn`t bad, all things considered, especially for a first try at Flash. The important things are that you tried, you learned, AND that you were willing to put it out to the public for viewing. :-)
By revanisle 1103 Days Ago
0 points

I totally agree. I think most of us universally hate into videos. But someone must like them... uh... I guess.

I think the only people who like intro videos are the people who created them - and maybe their mothers. Steve, I thought your cartoon was pretty good - especially for a first stab - the "word balloon Next button" is a great idea, but I also have to agree with Craig that it moved a little slow, but I digress - you`ve already moved on from that.

I got a wonderful email yesterday - PicFindr is going to be featured on the Kim Komando Show (her 60 second weekday show) as the "Cool Site of the Day" next Wednesday (March 14). It`ll be interesting to see if she mentions anything about it being a Flash site.
revanisle2007-3-9 5:25:53
By revanisle 1103 Days Ago
0 points
Here`s what Jim Rapoza of eweek had to say about Flash in his "Top web technologies of all time" piece today:

"While it can cause headaches on Web sites that go over the top with animated and intrusive ads, Flash has helped to bring interactivity and rich media applications to the Web."

I think it nicely sums up the sentiments of this discussion.
By CraigL 1102 Days Ago
0 points
Serendipity of the Day Department

I got an email today about a world calendar of events. It`s the annual listing for a very large business in the IT field. The question was if I could frame it better, and if not, what ideas I have that might be helpful.

Prior to this thread, I never would have even come close to recommending Flash. But specifically because of what I learned here, I was able to propose at least a couple of ways the entire thing could (and should) be done in Flash.

I doubt the client enterprise has the Flash skills in their lineup, and have no idea what will be the result. But I thought I`d present this example of how events on Startup Nation do indeed cause changes to many seemingly unrelated things.

:-)
By JDawg 1069 Days Ago
0 points
Sorry to resurrect an old post, but I love Flash if executed well.

CraigL, it seems you have found that Flash does more than offer the warm and fuzzies! That`s good!

I agree with many others that all Flash sites isn`t really the way to go, however, visit a big brand company like Nike or Gatorade and you`ll find the Flash is executed so well.

I work in Flash (the most non-intuitive design software I know ) and design elements for web sites. For example, my web site is HTML with Flash elements. SEO isn`t an issue because my copy is in the coding.

But most of my Flash work is for trade show presentations or instructional guides for clients (sent via CD or email). It doesn`t have to be on the web. It is a great medium to get information across. And I love it, love it!!
JDawg2007-4-12 11:54:37
By mond 1069 Days Ago
0 points
Check out our free flash chat service for any website. It`s high quality cross site chat that connects people based on interest and have it`s own search built in.

You can see it live at www.geesee.com
By CraigL 1069 Days Ago
0 points
Update April `07

I`ve gone back to the library, finding some old books about HTML and CSS. These were written when CSS was a "risky proposition" because it hadn`t yet been standardized or adopted in Explorer 4.0. Or, IE and Netscape used it differently.

What I`ve discovered is that modern education, explanation, and training systems, even those on the Web, are really and truly badly written! There are SO many assumptions never explained, they`re almost unintelligable.

By going back in history to those old books, I`m getting all the underlying assumptions, explanations, and expanded descriptions. It all was totally new, back then, and so writers had to make those explanations. Nowadays, you`re just supposed to know all those platform-level basics.

An example of CSS is that I see a "Z-index" setting in the Box properties. No explanation, and it`s not that easy to find such an explanation that`s ALSO in context with learning box properties in the first place. Why? Bad writing. Anyone could`ve just said it was the same as placing layers above or below, in a typical graphics program.

This thread has helped tremendously, because I think it provides a back-and-forth dialog (not to be redundant or anything), with real human beans. It`s the difference between computer-based training and instructor-led, where in the latter, people can ask for clarifications.

CSS isn`t at all as difficult as it was made out to be. I`m now supposing that neither is Flash! all that difficult to understand. But without a way to train people where they can understand not only features, but also WHY they would use various features, we end up with that bad reputation.

It`s one thing to explain what you do (see the 10-word elevator pitch thread). It`s a very different thing to explain what you offer to someone who buys your product. So too, it`s one thing to list a series of features. It`s very different to put those features in context and explain why you would want to use them.

CraigL2007-4-12 20:7:4

Show 6-10 of 43 discussions

By CraigL 1091 Days Ago
0 points
Here`s a snippet from "Investor`s Business Daily:"

Democrats have long eyed President Bush`s tax cuts for top earners as a source of funds to cover the uninsured, save Social Security and help balance the budget.

But revenue from repealing those tax cuts isn`t nearly enough to solve one of those problems, let alone all three.

So Democrats have a new favorite source of "easy" cash: the estimated $290 billion gap between the taxes owed each year and what the IRS actually collects.

That brought up a question about things like eBay, which is related to cigarettes sold by the American Indian tribes. Congress wants to force vendors to report people who are selling a lot on places like eBay, just as they tried to force credit card companies to release data.

The cigarette issue revolved around the Indian territories being sovereign "countries." To get around it, credit companies had to report transactions made by purchasers. That led to the IRS going after unpaid tobacco taxes. Now they`re looking at something similar for online sales.

The problem, of course, is out-of-control spending by the US Government, both parties. Since they can pass their own laws, whether or not they choose to follow the balanced budget and "pay-as-you-go" limits really is irrelevant. But it sounds good, and gets politicians re-elected.

Will they be able to force eBay and other sites to relinquish financial records? At issue is "uncollected sales tax" from direct sales via online. It`s not just "unpaid" taxes in the ordinariy sense.

I`m trying to see how this could work, given that so much online commerce is international. Any thoughts?

CraigL2007-3-21 22:2:20
By nhgnikole 1090 Days Ago
0 points
I think they would need to make it simple.

The tax structure for online sales is nuts right now.
By Nuevolution 1090 Days Ago
0 points
It would be to hard.. since most businesses online are ran by home business entreprenuers. and there is still no law that says you need a business permit to do business online.
By Raisecapital02 1090 Days Ago
0 points
I am waiting to see the first Internet Government Website. It controls how operate on the internet based on IP addresses. I know someone is thinking of this.
By BrandAlchemy 1090 Days Ago
0 points
Of course they could do this with a mass subpoena of eBay`s top sellers and a cross-reference of their shipping addresses. Considering how much is shipped through the USPS on eBay (eBay invited the post master general to their last convention in Las Vegas), how difficult do you think it would be for the US Government to track shipments within the country? Not very.

Revenue recovery of unpaid income tax is a completely separate issue from internet sales tax. Besides, there is no federal sales tax, anyway. What exactly would the US government be collecting? State taxes for things shipped within the same state are one thing; what federal taxes are due on internet sales?

Unless and until the US government authorizes federal sales tax on internet sales, this is a completely irrelevant issue. And yes, those who owe the $290 billion can run but they can`t hide, and they shouldn`t. Those people are called `thiefs`, regardless of how one feels about federal spending. You owe what you owe, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.
By CraigL 1090 Days Ago
0 points

Revenue recovery of unpaid income tax is a completely separate issue from internet sales tax.

The Wall Street Journal makes a distinction between sales tax, and unreported sales revenues.

What they`re referencing is that a home-based seller on eBay is mostly pocketing the money they`re getting. Two tax components come into play. The one is the sales tax, and Congress isn`t looking at that in this context. The other is the unreported gross annual income.

When they talk about uncollected tax, they mean the "extra" $5,000 (for example) someone earns on eBay or off their Web site and doesn`t declare.

Of course if that income were (somehow) tracked, and if it could be proven that it came from some kind of sales activity, then the *other* issue of sales tax would come into play as well.
By BrandAlchemy 1090 Days Ago
0 points
Craig,
Gotcha. Sorry, didn`t understand the issue.

Anyway, considering that the DOJ has nailed Google, Yahoo, etc. for search files (which include no revenue issues), I am sure the IRS and Treasury will, if they haven`t already, start looking into online transactions.

And again, they should. Why should I pay tax on revenue and others not?
By CraigL 1090 Days Ago
0 points
Aren`t we actually talking about that "gray market" everyone in government and business first noticed....what....25 years ago?

A "black market" is where people are selling outlawed products, but not in the same sense as illegal and controlled substances. Ordinary context would be "banned" products, being different from outright illegal. Right?

But a "gray market," in my understanding, is where goods and services are exchanged without using bank notes of some kind---money.

Back in the Carter days, when the economy was going nuts, I remember reading about "estimates" (How would they be accurate?) of a nearly trillion-dollar "economy" going on across the country that worked without money. The problem was how to tax all that activity.

I see there`s a proposal right now to tax the sale of illegal drugs. How would that be implemented and enforced? Congress must think they know. At the same time we have this ongoing thing about how to get money into the government`s hands from all that e-commerce activity in the "cottage industry."

I guess I`m seeing these as all inter-related. Reminds me of even earlier history, with "those damn Revin `ooers!" :-)
By nevadascul 1090 Days Ago
0 points
Hi all,

If the federal government doesn’t, you can be sure the states will. Some states have already addressed the issue under point of sale and point where the buyer actually takes possession of the merchandise. The below excerpt is from the State of Nevada state sales tax web site FAQ page

Products ordered via the internet and shipped into Nevada are taxable, as well as any software transferred via disc….
By Nuevolution 1090 Days Ago
0 points
California, has Internet taxes. I think theres 5 other states that have imposed Internet taxes. As far as the government going after all the ebay sellers... Well Im pretty sure it can be done but it would be impossible.
F.Y.I... ICANN Charges a .25 Cent tax on all domain names. Most registrars don`t tell you but for every registered domain name you own you pay .25 cents.
By BrandAlchemy 1090 Days Ago
0 points
`Pretty sure it can be done but it would be impossible` - Huh? So, like, the IRS has each and every SS# and complete access to each and every financial transaction. So, the much smaller population of eBay would be difficult, or even impossible?
Please...

BTW, every registrar tells you about ICANN. That supports the name registry.
By Nuevolution 1090 Days Ago
0 points
You said it, if its a large company that is selling 5K a day on Ebay, Im pretty sure they are taking the right measures to avoid being audited by the IRS. But if you are Joe Shmo that sells one item per month. I don`t they they care at all unless it`s over 2500.
By CraigL 1089 Days Ago
0 points
I`m thinking along the same lines, that if you sell only a couple of things a month, nobody`s going to get exercised. But if you sell a lot of things, say with revenues of over $1,000/month, you`d be a "target."

Obviously, it`d be very hard to track each individual seller. But if the IRS could "somehow" force eBay to hand over reports for all members with sales above a certain figure, the reports could include personal information used to register.

There`s going to be a major cross-over argument with privacy issues and what constitutes a private database. That`s where the problem of tracking cigarette buyers through their utilization of a credit card was interesting. The gov`t. put pressure on the major Mastercard, Visa, etc., vendors and they caved. They handed over reports of anyone using a credit card to purchase tobacco.

The problem too is that at least there`s an old, somewhat obscure existing law regarding transporting tobacco across state lines. Does that exist for the sale of merchandise? Dunno, but it looks as if the government really doesn`t care whether something`s legal or not. They`ll just change the laws to make it legal.

What worries me is that with the out-of-control spending, even the Democrats are realizing they can`t raise taxes all that much more. Given a "natural" ceiling on tax rates, it`s going to come down to collecting money already outstanding.

It`s like a business with growing outstanding receivables. They could raise prices to offset the cash problems. They could sell more product (the gov`t has no product to sell), or they can go after those receivables. The harder the cashflow crunch, the more aggressive the collections attempts.

CraigL2007-3-23 22:51:2
By BrandAlchemy 1089 Days Ago
0 points
There`s not a whole lot `obscure` about transporting tobacco products for resale over state lines. It`s against federal law without tax stamps for the receiving state, plus lots of regulations. Bad example.

For what it`s worth (not that anyone has said this anyway), eBay will not allow tobacco products on it`s site for this very reason.

You guys seem to think that our massive federal government will have trouble researching eBay and other online sellers and tracking them down for revenue recovery purposes. No, they won`t have any trouble at all. And while I`m sure eBay would fight an across-the-board request for info on all sellers over a certain dollar amount (remember that search warrants cannot be general in nature; the nature of the search and the sought-after discovery items must be spelled out), specific subpoenas will be hard to quash.

BTW, how hard would it be for the IRS to pose as a buyer on eBay, then work their way backwards to the seller? Not very, especially on higher-ticket items. And considering the feedback mechanisms of eBay, the sales info is right out there in front of god and everybody to see just how much volume they are doing.

This task can be done in one episode of CSI, my friends. Have you heard of Oracle, Acxiom, etc.?

Moral of the story: hide revenue from the IRS, and I hope they break down your door (which they would have already seized, by the way) and indict you for tax evasion.

Finally, Nuevolution and others, where do you get these arbitrary `$2500 and below ` numbers from? I think I know where you pulled that info from, but we`re not allowed to use that kind of language on SuN.
By CraigL 1089 Days Ago
0 points
I don`t think it`s that hard for the IRS to get information. The bigger issue is how many employees can the assign to the task. We`ll see.

As for the relatively obscure reference on tobacco products, it`s not so much that the law is obscure. Rather, it was the way it was used. Indian territories aren`t part of the US, regardless of their geographic location. So the US couldn`t go after the transactions from the seller`s end. The sellers also are doing the transporting.

Instead they had to figure out how to go after the buyers who weren`t doing the transporting, per sé. To my mind, it would be similar to the US tax agencies demanding that any merchandise being sold from Sweden be taxed (just to be arbitrary). By what authority could they do this, and more importantly, how would they enforce it without declaring war on Sweden?

Note that to my mind, again, there`s a relationship between eBay being forced to hand over records and the case involving libel on a Web server. Although the claimant went after the site owner, it turned out only the account-holder could be sued.

Can eBay be held accountable for the tax accounting of their membership? I don`t think so. But the financial records of sales by those members are what, "owned" by eBay? Or are they owned, individually, by each member?

CraigL2007-3-23 23:13:49
By rvdebby 1088 Days Ago
0 points
I didn`t realize this thread was going. The last few days Seattle TV has been buzzing about the bill that has been signed by the governor. It was reported that 21 states have laws on the books right now.

Sales Tax on Internet Purchases

You can also see the News story here...

Show 6-10 of 16 discussions

By CraigL 1088 Days Ago
0 points
I saw a really nice print ad (Northern Trust bank), with a headline saying "Contentment Index." It showed a bar graph for the money you have, in relation to the memories you have. I didn`t read the rest of the ad, but it got me thinking about life.

Whatever`s your age, right now how many memories do you treasure? Are they in what you think of as a good balance or ratio?

As a Baby Boomer, I grew up in that "materialistic" world, where our parents were coming out of WWII and even the Depression. They were mostly concerned with a nice home life, a car in the garage, Sunday baseball games, and peace and quiet.

That generation was maybe the last of those who elevated duty and obligation to a higher level than personal desires. Fathers had an obligation to provide for the family, while mothers had an obligation not only to have children, but to be at home to raise them. There was a strong sense of civic duty, corporate loyalty, and "The American Way."

As a result, their children---the Boomers---experienced almost nothing of any consequence, relative to serious trauma. The war in Viet Nam was a war, but it was on TV for the most part, excepting for the men and women who were there. But because it was on TV, those people became a remote set of "actors," not really part of the country. It was a sad problem.

So here we all are. Many of us turned away from that material accumulation, choosing to "do our own thing, man." ("Man" is the previous version of the word "dude," for those of you in later generations.)

Many people I grew up around had lots of money, but ended up dying alone, with few friends, and certainly without a whole lot of satisfaction in regard to their life and memories. They did what they had to do, acccumulated some fine memories here and there, but had a much larger bank account. It didn`t do much for them in the last hours.

If you were told you had about 10 hours to live, like in the movie "Meet Joe Black," how do your accounts look? Would you be satisfied that if you were to take your consciousness with you that you`d have lots to bring?
By Rumpelstiltskin 1088 Days Ago
0 points
Craig. You left out: 4. So poor you can`t afford to pay attention. So I chose Memories.
By CraigL 1088 Days Ago
0 points
How bad would THAT be....to not only have no money, but also no satisfying memories! Jeez.....
By Raisecapital02 1087 Days Ago
0 points
I had many good memories with family and friends, but I would leave my family with a safety net. I do not need them to remember me dying, and leaving them with ways to pay what I accumulated.
By CraigL 1087 Days Ago
0 points
RaiseCapital,
So what you`re saying is you have a balance of the memories and the money? I wonder....would it be possible to quantify such a balance. The cool thing about the ad was that it asked the question, at least. I thought I`d ask it here, on the forums.

:-)
By InactiveMember 1086 Days Ago
0 points
Craig I really relate to your post. When you get to the point where the wrinkles around your eyes don`t go away when you stop smiling ... and your hair is more gray than whatever. It`s somewhat sobering even if you feel young at heart.
By CraigL 1086 Days Ago
0 points
"They" say you can`t take "it" with you. Presumably, when you die. But supposing that there`s a "where" you`re headed, then something would have to continue of your consciousness and sense of self. In that case, all you could take with you would be your memories.

On the other hand, it takes moo-lah to live a pleasant life here in this life. And how would you have pleasant memories if you "ain`t got no muhhhneee..." as the song says.

Funny thing, though. Some of my best memories are of times when I was flat broke, zero bucks, and wondering how I`d eat the next day. There`d be a Christmas story, or a fine dinner with friends in the same boat, and we`d stop, look at each other and wonder, "Can it get any better than this?" :-D

Well...okay...so with a few thousand dollars it probably could get better. Yet the memory persists as one of the most satisfying. It`s what they call a paradox, I believe.

Show 6-7 of 7 discussions

By CraigL 1020 Days Ago
0 points
"Oh....if only I could know for sure that this decision was right!"

Do you really want to know the future? I mean *really* know it, on a regular basis, whenever you had a problem or decision, or things weren`t going the way you expected. Would you?

Lots of people, when they really think about it, would rather not know. They say it would make for a boring life. But there`s more to it than that.

Suppose you knew for sure that on Dec 12, in two years, you were absolutely going to be sitting in a new car. Wouldn`t that be great! Gosh...no more doubt, and it`s not like you knew EVERYthing all the time..right?

Now suppose next Monday you wake up, knowing that by Friday afternoon at 4pm, you`re going to be in a car collision, lose an eye and an arm, and probably have someone in your family killed.

Further suppose that only by first being in that car crash would you absolutely have the new car in two years. Nothing you could do would change anything, and there was no way possible for you to avoid that car crash and ensuing consequences.

Uncertainty about the future is more than avoiding the stress and worry. It protects us from avoiding going through bad things in order for good things to come out of them.

More importantly, when we`re fat and happy, we get comfortable, and we stop tweaking at a product or idea, trying to figure out "What`s going wrong?" Whether or not anything actually IS wrong, we keep pushing, tweaking, exploring, and working on it, making it better and better. Only because we`re worried that it`s just not good enough and THAT`s why people aren`t buying it.

What about drama, excitement, adventure, and the unknown? And what about choice itself? Suppose you decided you`re prefer not to go through the car crash. Would that mean you`d also not get the new car in two years? Probably so.

By not knowing the future, we`re given the freedom to choose our own desitny.
By jillybeans 1016 Days Ago
0 points
CraigL, even if you know today what the future is expected to bring, you are the manufacturer of your own destiny. You can bring about change through your action. By changing your patterns, thought processes, actions, through meditation or otherwise, you can change the expected future. If you want to find out about the future, you can do that through tarot, rune and psychic readings -- find out more at my website.

Jillybeans
By jp2007 1016 Days Ago
0 points
hi all. great site.
By CraigL 1016 Days Ago
0 points
To know the future, without doubt, means to eliminate free will and choice. :-)
By jillybeans 1015 Days Ago
0 points
Even if you know the future, there will always be doubt because you can change the course of events. Therefore, there is always free will and choice!

Jillybeans
By CraigL 1015 Days Ago
0 points
Even if you know the future, there will always be doubt because you can change the course of events.

Then you won`t know the future. To know means to have no doubt.

:-)
By CraigL 1013 Days Ago
0 points
Right: If we knew ahead of time about pain, we`d avoid it (naturally enough). Then we`d get none of the rewards of dealing with the painful events.

Ask yourself, "What would NOT exist today, had I NOT experienced that awful thing in the past."

Show 6-7 of 7 discussions

By CraigL 818 Days Ago
0 points
I have no evidence other than anecdotal, but I`m wondering how many people are facing downward movement in their credit rating as a result of starting their own business.

From a different perspective, though, I wonder if people whose "regular job" collapsed, have been sort of driven into starting a business, but their credit rating was poor because of losing their regular employment?

I`m getting a sense that there`s an increaing gap taking place. I could make an argument that the microbusiness and startup-entrepreneurial sector is the future of the country, but that the nature of starting a business also slams into one`s credit rating.

If that`s true, and if your credit rating is as important as some would say (a pretty big "if"), then are we dealing with a contradicting dynamic? Can you start a small business in an environment where a bad credit rating prevents you from doing business?

Just curious... :-)

CraigL2007-12-19 13:37:20
By CampSteve 818 Days Ago
0 points
I don`t know whether to choose "Not much of a change" or "No change at all, really".

(I`m just teasing Craig because I know one can`t edit the polls after posting them.)

Seriously though, I`m one of those people that hold credit to a pretty high esteem. Business hasn`t hurt my credit at all but as an artist and not say, a property developer, I`m not faced with putting money on the line much. If anything, having a business structure to my finances has probably helped me be smarter about money and thus, probably improved my credit score.
By CraigL 817 Days Ago
0 points
Hey, I routinely go shopping and come home at exactly the same time. :-D So why shouldn`t your credit rating be severely affected and not at all affected simultaneously? LOL!!

Nah, I know what you`re saying, and that`s another part of this potential topic. I`m often surprised at the amounts of money people have to invest in a startup, where they believe they`re on a shoestring budget. I`m evaluating it in comparison to people bootstrapping, where the "shoestring" is a huge amount. It`s relative, in other words.

So too, some businesses are product oriented and involve inventory, others are service oriented. But with all this talk nowadays about how if your credit rating tanks you may`s well suck on a hose in the garage with the car running, I dunno. Is it REALLY that critical, in all cases, all the time? Apparently not if you`re an artist. :-)

By CraigL 796 Days Ago
0 points
I`d say a boutique business can have a few employees, but the main characteristic is that it isn`t intended to become "huge." It`s a way to generate a nice, comfortable income but that will involve your personal work for as long as the business continues.

A "mid-size" business with employees is a sort of traditional operation, in this context. It`s a small business, with less than 50 employees, but that includes a complete management structure. You wouldn`t be literally making your product, but would be in charge of the business. Examples might be a manufacturing plant, retail market, restaurant, and so forth. Again, this is more like a place you go to work, that doesn`t feel like part of your home.

A large-scale enterprise would have a possible future involving going public, offering national franchises, or perhaps national (or international) outlets and distribution.
By cdbartwork 796 Days Ago
0 points

I would like a boutique style business from a practical standpoint, I am the designer, developer, fabricator, marketer etc. etc. etc. but in my dreams this has evolved into a large scale enterprise beyond my expectations. Wouldn`t this be exciting..well back to dreaming.

Colleen
By DoorMat 796 Days Ago
0 points
Mid size for sure...
By CraigL 795 Days Ago
0 points
Why the mid-size? I`m curious. I don`t particularly have any bias toward any of them, and can relate to Colleen`s having to do all the various parts herself. I thought I`d poll people just to see how come they want the size bracket. :-)
By DoorMat 795 Days Ago
0 points

Craig,

I like the big business feel without the bureaucracy, which I find possible in mid size companies. I also like a more hands on approach, which is not to be confused with micro managing, but rather just being able to be involved. Also, I beleive it creates opportunity for department heads to "have their own business", which can lead to astonishing results. I feel more "alive" when working with a mid size as compared to a small or large......any of this making sense to you?
By CraigL 795 Days Ago
0 points
Makes sense definitely. Sort of a best of both worlds, without the political mud of a large enterprise.
By DBeavers 795 Days Ago
0 points
I found my niche as a micro business - Home-based, no employees, no showroom, no set hours, no limited territory, etc.

But the great part is that I am affiliated with a large business that handles all the credit, billing, sales taxes, etc, leaving me free to focus on sales and marketing.

I have the freedom of being the boss, with no employees to hire, manage, fire, etc. No worries that an employee will let me down or cost me money. No employee conflicts whatsoever. And having the freedom to choose my own priorities.

And I only have to pay unemployment taxes on myself.

Dennis
By nhgnikole 795 Days Ago
0 points
I swear, the more I think about it ... the more I have no desire to be any bigger than I am right now. Maybe I`d add one or 2 more, but that is about it.
By icollect 795 Days Ago
0 points
id have to agree, the first option fits me best!
By DoorMat 795 Days Ago
0 points

I found my niche as a micro business - Home-based, no employees, no showroom, no set hours, no limited territory, etc.

But the great part is that I am affiliated with a large business that handles all the credit, billing, sales taxes, etc, leaving me free to focus on sales and marketing.

I have the freedom of being the boss, with no employees to hire, manage, fire, etc. No worries that an employee will let me down or cost me money. No employee conflicts whatsoever. And having the freedom to choose my own priorities.

And I only have to pay unemployment taxes on myself.

Dennis

Certainly seems like a great gig ya got going on......
By LiveWise 795 Days Ago
0 points

I like my home-based franchise business. I am part of the largest and fastest growing chain of bookstores in the world. Like Dennis, I have the advantage to be affiliated with a larger company being able to benefit from their buying power, but I never have to do any of the website maintenance, shipping or other customer service.

I have the freedom of working my own hours, not having to worry about employees, and I can decide how much or how little I work. I also like that my efforts benefits charities without any extra effort on my part. I also liked that I get 100% of my money back if it didn`t work for me---that`s huge as any entrepreuneur knows they usually sink so much in for start-up fees. The pay out has been great and the value of it has been worth 10 times the small amount of running my own business.
By CraigL 794 Days Ago
0 points
Not too long ago we had a long thread about this phrase, "Go big or go home!" In that discussion, two sides split out very distinctively. One side had no interest at all in "going big," and argued in favor of staying small. The other side argued that there was no "point" to having a business that stayed small.

Lately, I`ve been hearing this phrase all over the place, even in a commercial for a hardware store. The customer is supposed to "go big or go home," in the sense of spending everything they have in the store. I thought that was a bit ridiculous, but it got me thinking again about this "go big or go home."

So far, in the entrepreneurial community (given a small sample), it seems as though the boutique (small) idea is most attractive. I happen to agree, actually, but thought I`d ask other folks.

It seems to me, yet again, that the traditional statistics and ways for measuring wha`s going on economically in the country, are failing to capture a whole lot of the underlying reality. What happens if the majority of startups and small businesses do indeed continue to move toward boutique businesses?

Then, just to connect to the thread on fairness, what happens to all those employees out there who lose their jobs due to there not being any jobs? Boutique businesses, after all, tend to only need maybe one or two employees, right?

CraigL2008-1-12 14:20:40
By DBeavers 793 Days Ago
0 points
On the other hand Craig, every employee who moves to a home-based business, leaves a job opening for someone else.

My customers have several choices where they can order promotional advertising - Internet, mail order catalog, and local sales people like myself. It doesn`t matter to them whether I have a fancy office or not, as I come to their location. My competitors with the big buildings and large employee payroll have to charge more, to cover the high overhead. My clients prefer to have better prices, as long as they know they`ll receive quality products, imprinted correctly, and delivered in a timely fashion.

I even serve a number of online buyers, who could often get a cheaper price from a website, but prefer the personal and professional service they get when ordering from me.

If I help my customer`s business grow, I also help him or her add more employees over time. So, by doing my job right, I can actually help create more jobs with the some of the clients I serve.

Or to put it another way, "My business is helping others grow their business!"

Dennis Bevers
By CraigL 793 Days Ago
0 points
That`s a great line of reasoning, Dennis! :-) I hadn`t thought about the growing small companies sector adding back different types of jobs.
By DBeavers 792 Days Ago
0 points
Or as one of our former US Presidents put it, The opposition always looks at the pie and sees a shortage of pie. But as he proved, we could expand the pie. I can sell to people that have never purchased any promotional products before, in which case, I`m enlarging the pie.

The fact that many of my customer`s businesses are growing, doesn`t necessarily mean they are taking business away from their competitors.

When others are considering whether their glass is half full or half empty, I look at mine and see room to add more. Not that it is half empty, but if I apply myself, I can find a means to fill it and not wait for someone else to fill it.

I may be a curmudgeon, but I`m an optimistic one.

Dennis Bevers
By CraigL 792 Days Ago
0 points
Alright, so it seems there`s a strong movement toward "life style" businesses, where the purpose of the company is to provide a nice income, like an investment portfolio. Given the shaky aspects of investing, along with the lack of portfolio so many of us seem to have, not to mention the increasing tax burdens, a "business as investment" or "business as retirement plan" seems to be a good idea.

Frankly, I don`t care all that much about the employment situation, OTHER than the fact that with more people working comfortably, there`s more disposable income for our niche product. :-) But I do think about the growing wave of people leaving the corporate environment to start a business. Mostly, those are competent people, so the "Peter Principle" comes to mind.

We`ve endured (as a culture) about 50 years of educational and social policies designed to "mandate" that all people should be perfectly equal. So it wouldn`t surprise me (borrowing from Ayn Rand`s "Atlas Shrugged") if the US reaches a point where microbusiness owners are someday compelled to take on at least one employee, in the name of fairness.

I have no particular proof, but I do have a sense that there`s a growing pressure wave in the corporate world regarding inflated wages. Maybe a bit like the union wages, when compared to a global/international marketplace. If that`s true, then there`ll come a time, I think fairly soon, that the wage scales will have a "correction," to use a Wall Street term. At that point, whomever can do it likely will leave and start their own business, adding to the exodus aleady taking place.

Will we see a huge expansion of this cottage industry type of economy? What would that look like, given something like the Internet? Can the postal and shipping services handle it?

Show 6-10 of 16 discussions

By CraigL 757 Days Ago
0 points
The other day, Kathy decided to decorate the living room with one of our nautical signal flag valances. For those of us who don`t know interior decor, a "valance" is a thingamajig that hangs down over the curtains in front and sort of hides the curtain rod.

We`ve been selling these to other people for about a year, and we get lots of great feedback. But!....do we have one anywhere in our home? Um....er.....well, tell ya what...lemme get back to you on that....! :-)

So we made the flags, went out and bought a curtain rod, and hung the valance today. Hokey Spoons! It looks really cool...! But we also discovered some of the practical problems associated with hanging the curtain rod. That led to a couple of new ideas for making the product easier and better.

Do you use your own product every day? Have you found that what you thought was perfect turned out to have a few minor complications that you only discovered as you became a "user?"
By houseofjerkyjanie 757 Days Ago
0 points

Craig, That is SO great, you finally used your own product to accessorize your home!! Yay, Kathy, I bet it does look good!

I always say, at least, I don`t eat my profits. :) But sometimes, if I am packing orders, it just looks so good. So sometimes, I break open a bag, but,.. really, not too often. I`m glad that I do have customers that want to eat it all the time though. :)

Janie
By CraigL 757 Days Ago
0 points
Thank goodness we don`t sell a food product! We`d be like Lucy in that episode where she`s working in the candy factory! ;-D
By houseofjerkyjanie 757 Days Ago
0 points
Thanks for the good visual, Craig.. I can see it! :)
By Kathy 757 Days Ago
0 points
Thanks Janie I really love how it looks and will be taking pictures soon. It really transforms the living room since I have a nautical decor anyway.

I remember that Lucy episode and have to agree with Craig that it would be hard with a food product.

Kathy
By houseofjerkyjanie 757 Days Ago
0 points

Kathy, you have nautical decor, and hadn`t used your product to decorate with yet? Shame on you. :) Glad you finally did!

Okay, .... don`t worry, I won`t ask you two, to open a jerky store.

Janie
By GreetingCardGoldmine 757 Days Ago
0 points
There are advantages to using your own product as you just experienced. It is much easier to help your customers when you know all the little details.

I do use my own product everyday. In fact I think every product I have ever sold I use everyday. In addition to my main business I am a distributor for a line of wellness products. I fell in love with them about eight years ago and have ordered monthly ever since. I am the kind of customer I like to attract.

Mary
By houseofjerkyjanie 756 Days Ago
0 points

Okay, Craig and Kathy, post your pics, so we can all see how you used your product.

Janie

houseofjerkyjanie2/19/2008 9:10 AM
By CampSteve 756 Days Ago
0 points
I voted no because I don`t "use" my product myself. I prefer not to hang my own poster art in my own home. I see enough of it as it is and I like to have others` artwork on my walls.
By studiocherie 756 Days Ago
0 points

Wherever I go people ask me, is that one of your bags? So now, I could never carry someone else`s bag. A lot of women have handbag collections, my collection is 99.9% Studio Cherie. The one other designer I still have is Carlos Falchi.

Since bags are carried against your body, I consider them to be a very personal thing. Just try reaching your hand into a womans bag, and you will see how personal that space is! Naturally, my designs are personal to me, and time will tell how many women choose to add me to their collections.

Crypton Handbags are a new category on my site, and I will be adding more bags for the Spring collection in the coming weeks.

There are designs that I have tweaked after carrying the first prototype. Craig makes a good point that experiencing the product does add to the quality, if you pay attention and are willing to make changes. The credibility factor is important too.

I can`t wait to see photos of the Landes nautical living room!
By Kathy 756 Days Ago
0 points
Actually the signal flags are in my living room. I just put a quick picture and write up about it on my blog
so that you can see it. We will be taking additional pictures and probably putting some on our website. Thanks for the interest.

Kathy
By studiocherie 756 Days Ago
0 points
"Adventure" I love it! I just thought of a sailor friend who would love it too. I`ll be passing it on.
By jenidlg 756 Days Ago
0 points
My services aren`t really something I can use so much but, I used to do direct sales for a certain pink cosmetics brand and they always told us that you will sell what you love. I found it very true that if I found a new product that I loved, I told everyone about it and it was a best seller for me. If I didn`t like or use a product as much I didn`t sell much of it.
By CraigL 756 Days Ago
0 points
Well, it`s definitely good to hear that people DO use their own products! I wonder if maybe that`s the whole thing---we wanted something, couldn`t find it, invented it, then started a business doing just that thing. :-)

I can relate to Steve seeing so much of the art in everyday work that it`d be a bit much having it hanging as even more, in and around the house. In some ways I remember when I was playing music professionally, I`d tend to only listen to music we didn`t play every night.

Do you think maybe one reason customer service in large corporations is so poor may have to do with how the executives of those companies don`t use their own products? I worked a short while for "Video Concepts," the branded item version of Radio Shack. Tandy Corporation requires that ALL management and executive candidates have a work history of being on the sales floor. I`m not sure that`s helped them much....but at least they do know the customers.
By Kathy 755 Days Ago
0 points
Thanks Cherie we really appreciate the word of mouth. I will do the same if I hear of anyone that is looking for a unique bag like yours.

I also agree with jenidlg that it is easier to sell a product that you love.

Kathy
By houseofjerkyjanie 755 Days Ago
0 points

Kathy,

Your valance looks great. And I took time to read your blog too. It`s very interesting. It`s amazing to think you actually sew all of your product. That makes it even more special. All the Marinas should have a shop, with your catalog for custom orders. Have you taught Craig to sew yet? :)

Janie
By Kathy 755 Days Ago
0 points
Janie,

Thanks and I am glad that you found it interesting. I enjoy writing in the blog and doing research about signal flags. Interesting idea with the marina`s. We have had some orders for marina`s in the past. The bulk of our orders is personalized names especially for boys rooms.

Haven`t taught Craig to sew yet. But he cuts pretty good.

Kathy
By CraigL 755 Days Ago
0 points
My services aren`t really something I can use so much but, I used to do direct sales for a certain pink cosmetics brand and they always told us that you will sell what you love. I found it very true that if I found a new product that I loved, I told everyone about it and it was a best seller for me. If I didn`t like or use a product as much I didn`t sell much of it.

We`re seeing that if you make a product, it`s relatively easy to use that product yourself. But what about situations like this, where you offer a service?

Given the benefits of using your own product to fine-tune possible problems or come up with variations and improvements, can that be done with services?
By CampSteve 755 Days Ago
0 points
It`s interesting when you put it in terms of a product versus a service. I commented before that I don`t use my own products by the fact that I don`t hang my own art on my walls.

However, as a service, I use my talent for personal reasons all the time! I create logos for my own self. I design products myself. I`ve designed my own websites. I do all sorts of personal drawing and experimental design. So while posters remain my core "product" in business, my design "services" are something I do use.

But then can you call it something I "use" when it`s coming from my own self? I feel so used. :)
By CraigL 754 Days Ago
0 points
Hmm....I use my writing and computer skills (services) all the time too, come to think of it. Then I complain that I`m not working fast enough. I probably will get fired one of these days for complaining to myself too much.
By barkwheats 749 Days Ago
0 points
I personally don`t use my product, but my dogs do. They love the biscuits that I make, and every once in a while I share in the moment and have one myself with them. Nice to hear all the other stories.
By CowboyJack 749 Days Ago
0 points

I sure use my products! I brew up a pot of 100% Kona Cowboy Coffee every morning. Unfortunately, I can`t drink it after three in the afternoon or I`m up all night. I try to snack on my chocolate-covered Kona coffee beans only when I sample them at trade shows. I`m constantly surprised by the number of people who have never tasted a chocolate-covered coffee bean and have to be told to "just pop `em your moth and crunch `em up, pard."

Jack Shuster

Kona Cowboy Coffee Company

Ruidoso, New Mexico

CowboyJack2/26/2008 12:23 PM
By saltydianne 749 Days Ago
0 points
Yes Yes I use my products..I not only use/wear my tshirts, I test them myself. The care labels say wash in cold water..I wash them in hot water 20x just to see if they can hold up!

Plus, if it is not a color combo that I would wear, then I do not make it/design it. Hence the reason there is a ton of pink in my product line.

All of my new products for spring/summer just arrived and I try on everything on first to check fabric and fit.

I use my products too much as I just ran out of stock on some shirts! whoops.

great question. I am a user and abuser of my products! ha ha ha

saltydianne2008-2-26 13:35:59
By CraigL 749 Days Ago
0 points
We ran across a product awhile back, through a community member, and we had some questions. In the course of events it turned out that they had almost no direct contact with their own product. It was manufactured elsewhere, from materials they never saw, then drop-shipped to customers. Even the mailing process was done elsewhere, excepting in this particular exception.

That got us talking about the benefits of outsourcing and drop-shipping, versus the gradual distancing we`d have from both our products and our customers and customer service. There`s a line, apparently, where a business changes from something personal and meaningful, to a sort of robotic machine running on its own.

There`s also been discussion about how the goal of the business owner is to make themselves replaceable---disposable, perhaps. The point is to focus on the processes, set them up so anyone else can take over, then let the machine run on its own. I really wonder how good an idea that is.

When we became our own customers, we saw a very different vision of the business than what so many so-called gurus seem to think is the best way to go.
By greenspinner 748 Days Ago
0 points

I ride my motorized bikes everywhere. I actually sold my truck when gas hit $2.50 gallon.

Many people think I am nuts zooming down the road when it`s 20 degrees out but in the summer they envy me. I don`t pay insurance, don`t need to be registered or buy tags every year. I paid $500 for my first bike and engine kit and, paid for its self in less than 6 months, try that with a car. You can find my engines at http://greenspinner.com I know sounds like and ad but I really love these things.
By newyorkelectric 747 Days Ago
0 points

That was a great question.

I signed up to use my own product and now I have a lower energy bill and have also have received free trips. I am my own customer! Every month I also get free travel points for future use on travel. My product is at http://newyorkelectric.joinambit.com for customers in New York, Westchester, Texas and Illinois. I also invite others to join as Marketing Consultants at http://newyorkelectric.biz where I have earned quite a few bonuses and where I am earning residual income every month as well.
By tallygrn 747 Days Ago
0 points

You have to be your own customer. I use all my products as well on a daily basis.

When customers ask a question about the product who better than I do answer them.

And I have first hand knowledge of my product line and the testimonies to go with it.

I firmly believe that you must be passionate about the products you represent. I am in

to the health and wellness industry myself. And I get to drink my healthy coffee, tea and cocoa everyday. I also represent an essential oil company and use them everyday.

Here is my website if you would like to see what I represent and why I am my own customer.

www.healthywomencafe.biz
By rookaps 747 Days Ago
0 points

I can honestly say I love my products and use them daily.

The fondness I have for my own products is what propels me to work so hard at selling them. We all know it is easy to promote and sell a product that you genuinely are enthused about.
By Cookie 747 Days Ago
0 points

I wouldn`t dream of starting to plant flowers without WEDGIE in hand! I think that`s why I can be such a powerful advocate for it -- I know its benefits so well. And yet, when I work garden walks or garden center open houses, I have people tell me new ways they`ve used it which I hadn`t thought of. Sometimes the ways have nothing to do with gardening (like using it to pry open their car window when they locked the keys inside). I`m not insulted. I like that it`s a versatile tool!
By Kathy 746 Days Ago
0 points
It`s really great to hear from so many people that they use their product. I have always loved my product and kept saying that I was going to make one for myself and am really glad that I did.

As stated above if you are passionate about your product it really shines through and it is so much easier when you talk to customer`s about it.

Kathy
By studiocherie 746 Days Ago
0 points

I think Craig`s point about larger companies being distanced from their product is a valid one. When I started Studio Cherie, my idea was to out source the mfg overseas, and then "stack `em deep and sell `em cheap," as we used to say at Costco. Now, after receiving numerous samples of versions of my products from overseas, my thinking is changed. No one has come close to the quality I require. Looks like Studio Cherie will be made in USA for the forseeable future.

Also, I have a new respect for anyone who is putting out a quality clothing line. I had a salesman talk me into ordering some samples through him. He had me convinced that it would be easy to add apparel to my line. When the samples came in the other day, I wanted to cry. They were no where near the quality that I would put my name on. I never saw myself as a control freak before, but I think when it comes to the quality of our products, we should all be control freaks. I am just starting to build my reputation, I can`t afford to blow it by putting out a product that I would not use myself.
By CraigL 746 Days Ago
0 points
Cherie brings in another really good point, about how when we`re a regular customer of our own business, quality control is almost a given.

I think it`s a natural function of human nature to be able to "split" perspectives between what personally matters, and what "ought to happen" on a more objective level. Think of the corporate employees who use jargon every other word when they`re making a presentation. Do they actually talk that way at home? Of course not.

We have some friends who tried the "made in China" route, and the nightmare they experienced got us pretty much out of the mood to outsource to Asia for manufacturing our particular product. On the other hand, we don`t want a product so hard to make that we`re the only people on the planet who can manufacture it. So we need higher quality standards.

It seems that unless there`s a direct, personal interaction with something, "quality" becomes more of an intellectual exercise, not something real and every day. With all the discussion about outsourcing, I`m starting to think that companies that manufacture items here in the US might be starting to "take it personally," so to speak. Is it possible for a whole factory to get personally involved? I think so, and we`ve seen documentaries and read stories about exactly that.

I`m also starting to think that things like Six Sigma, a formalized quality-control system, might have a built-in flaw in that the leave out this direct, personal experience component.

Show 6-10 of 32 discussions

By CraigL 749 Days Ago
0 points
I`m more and more getting irked by the seemingly widespread strategy of keeping product prices a total mystery.

We`re hearing all over the local radio that "Stamps.com" is the best way to avoid the utter misery of going to the Post Office. But to find out what`s going on you have to first sign up for the site.

Sure there`s a money-back guarantee, but they`re betting that after signing up you`ll either forget or love the service so much you`ll stay with them. Is that right?

It`s getting to where any time I see a site that doesn`t tell me the price right away, I just click away and never go back. I don`t CARE how useful or beneficial, fascinating or magical the product or service might be. It`s become one of my pet peeves. :-)

I understand the so-called sales logic, it just turns me off. On the other hand, I know that telemarketing generates huge amounts of money, and I hate that too. Just about everyone I talk with hates telemarketiing, and yet it`s everywhere so it must be successful.

Is that the situation with mysterious pricing? Is it just me and the people I talk with? Are we like the invisible people who like or hate TV shows, but whose opinion never seems to show up in "The Ratings?"
By DaleKing 748 Days Ago
0 points

No, it`s not just you. I also click away and won`t patronize sites that don`t reveal their pricing. It`s a matter of principle with me.

Dale King
By CampSteve 748 Days Ago
0 points
What do you mean by "right away, when the customer sees the site." This sounds like prices on a homepage. Depending upon the type of site and sales pitch, that may or may not be a bad thing.

I think pricing should be transparent. If it`s an e-commerce site, prices should be part of the product pages and not on a "separate page" There is no option for this in the poll.
By nhgnikole 748 Days Ago
0 points
I think this is impossible to answer.

There`s no way for me to give someone a direct price on my website. If I posted some arbitrary amount, people wouldn`t understand why theirs was more because they don`t understand the difference in backend programming between one site and the next. I mean, I have rough numbers, like "we start at ..." but it would just never work to post every little thing in an itemized list.

I would compare it to hiring a plumber or any other service professional ... they come over, they look at what you have, and then they send you an estimate. If you approve the estimate, you hand over a check or agree to the payment terms, and the work is performed. So saying "I don`t hire plumbers who don`t post their prices" is just absurd ... what plumber is going to post the part prices of every part in inventory and keep that entire list updated regularly?

The difference between me and the plumber is that there is more than one way to build a site ... so if you are trying to fit within a certain budget, I can help you make that happen. For example, if people say they have X amount of money, we may be able to come up with a bootstrapping plan, or cut back on some of the features, or find some more cost-effective marketing, or they can take on more of the work and hire out less, or whatever else. There`s just not one size fits all when you`re trying to build a business, so there`s not one price I can post.
By aither 748 Days Ago
0 points
I was just talking about this to someone else. I go back and forth on this subject. I have my rate structure but not my actual rates on my site, on a separate page. That allows me the flexibility to lower my rate to certain clients, e.g., I have three clients right now that are below my normal rate.

What I will do is give someone my hourly rate if they contact me - no hemming and hawing - I just give them my rate. I used to be coy and try to keep that info for the consultation but when I looked at it from the other side, I decided that I would want to know.
By CraigL 748 Days Ago
0 points
Okay, we`ve often seen strategic and implementation differences between a tangible product or store selling goods, and professional services. When I put the topic together I was pondering whether or not to specify only tangible goods, but I got to thinking about it.

I`m thinking of sites offering professional services, and in many instances they do refer to pricing. It`s often in a range, or a "starting at," or some other general indication. I do think that professional services sites are different enough that pricing doesn`t have to be as blatant, but on the other hand, having no reference at all is a turn off.

Nikole, for example: If you have nothing at all about your pricing, then when you do come into contact with your potential customer, there`s been a lot of time spent on their part, reading your sales materials and perhaps in the first direct conversations. Then, when price comes up, it could be entirely out of their range.

In either the Web material or your phone consversations, don`t you at least suggest a very broad pricing range?

Steve, you do have your pricing on the site. I get your question about whether it should be "immediately" visible, with an indication of it being on the home page. In our case, selling only one product, we can more easily do that---put the price on the home page. But for the majority of businesses, it`s not that easy. So having a separate pricing page, or having prices next to each item makes sense.

The bigger issue is the difference between two fundamental sales methodologies. The one says that if the customer has to stay "on the line" until they find out price at the end, they`ll be sold, and price won`t matter. The other is that knowing if something is in their price range ahead of time is a "qualifier."

I can`t count how many times it was drilled into me in retail that I should qualify the customer! Find out right away: is this a decision-maker, do they intend to buy, can they afford any of the product-lines they`re asking about.
By DoorMat 748 Days Ago
0 points

Impossible to answer is right. Depends is the best answer unfortunately.

Craig, I have been in the telemarketing field my entire adult life (with a short hiatus in outside sales) and love it! Yes it works. ..
By houseofjerkyjanie 748 Days Ago
0 points

Product purchases should have the prices, period. No sign ups, to find out. And if they do force you to sign up, I don`t stay either. So, it makes you wonder, how good there sales are.

It seems web designers, marketers, writers and pr professionals tend, to `not` make it as available, or as Steve, in logo design. Understood, they work on many different types of projects, as far as time involved etc. (And probably many service orientated businesses that I`m not even thinking about.) But, trying to work with people in these fields makes it difficult at times because you have to work to find out what they charge. But I`m not sure they can do it differently, unless they have basic packages set up, with options.

Janie

houseofjerkyjanie2/27/2008 10:26 PM
By katt33 747 Days Ago
0 points
I agree, prices should be given, especially if it is an e-commerce site. For distributors or manufacturers, I have seen sites that don`t give prices, but that is due to the nature of the business and pricing being different per different clients.
By RicWillmot 747 Days Ago
0 points
If you are focusing on professional services with this question, such as:
- Consulting
- Accounting
- Legal
- Recruitment
- Psychology
- Coaching
- PR
- HR
- etc
and, you quote rates or fees, you are treating yourself like a commodity and then so will your prospects. I have no idea what my costs will be until I meet with the TRUE economic buyer and have a discussion with that person around objectives, metrics and value. During that conversation we will establish conceptual agreement (or not) and then I will have a proposal by Fedex on that person`s desk within 24 hours.

If you are interested in reading more about Pricing for Professionals here are some free articles on my website ...

On the Free Articles page:
- Chefs, Psychologists and Bank Robbers
- The Porsche Paradox
- Companies habitually charge less for new offerings
- Escaping the Commodity Mindset (beware this is a larger file and may be slower for some to download who are not on cable)
There is also The Professions page which has some articles for different professions.

Finally, on my blog there are some posts on this topic:
- Be my Valentine
- Professional Service Myths
- $1,000 Pizza
- The $100 US Hamburger
- Request for Tender is Bad Business
Anything more and I will have to send you an invoice!

Rgds,
Ric
By Kathy 746 Days Ago
0 points
I can see that if you have a service that would be harder to post but if you have a product to me there is no reason to state what the price is. It really is a bug a boo of mine when they don`t tell you until the end. If they don`t I won`t buy.

The other thing is shipping costs. I hate when they wait till the end and hit you with a monster cost of shipping. One of my favorite sites has you type in your zip and based on what is in your cart will tell you what it would cost to be shipped.

Kathy
By CampSteve 746 Days Ago
0 points
I like to keep all prices private until after the customer makes a purchase. Then I hit them with an invoice and they get to see how much it costs. This way, I can make prices whatever I want on a purchase by purchase basis. And if you don`t know whether I`m serious or not, I`ll sell you the answer for an undisclosed price. :)
By CraigL 746 Days Ago
0 points

I like to keep all prices private until after the customer makes a purchase. Then I hit them with an invoice and they get to see how much it costs.

Okay, but this is what concerns me: the "surprise" factor. Steve, do you have customers then, who when they see the final bill are so surprised they don`t want to pay?

Ric, I think your argument regarding professional services stands. But I still think that the surprise factor isn`t really fair to the client either. So there must be *some* indication of about how much the service could run, right? Or are you saying that discussion of ballpark numbers only comes into play AFTER the Web site has done its job, and you`re into the specific initial contracting phase?
By CampSteve 746 Days Ago
0 points
Um, Craig, like I said, if you think I`m serious, I`ll sell you the answer. : p
By CraigL 746 Days Ago
0 points

Y`know, as I`m thinking about this, price is also a qualifier. I`m thinking of walking into a Mercedes dealer, and for some strange reason, not knowing anything about the cars. I`m seeing Fords and Chevys out on the street, along with a few BMWs and other high-end cars.

I ask something like, "So about how much would I need to put down for one of these." The sales person says something along the lines of, "It depends on the car, but generally our customers purchase our automobiles in cash."

Without even knowing the price, I get a pretty good idea that I probably can`t afford a Mercedes. :-)

Another point about this topic has to do with wasting your own time---the salesperson wasting time, discussing the product or service with someone who definitely can`t afford it.
By RicWillmot 746 Days Ago
0 points

Ric, I think your argument regarding professional services stands. But I still think that the surprise factor isn`t really fair to the client either. So there must be *some* indication of about how much the service could run, right? Or are you saying that discussion of ballpark numbers only comes into play AFTER the Web site has done its job, and you`re into the specific initial contracting phase?

Let me give you a specific and true example of why professionals should not quote prices but rather build relationships first, to understand what the client NEEDS.

Every client who calls a professional services firm knows what they WANT ... very few know what it is they NEED which is why they are seeking your help.

Telephone rings: "Hi Ric, this is Pam, I am the CEO of XYZ. Mary from ABC told me you are good and could help us. We need to improve the sales closing rates of our BDMs. Will you come and run a training program for us please?"

Most consultants would say, "Sure, two-day training program; $15,000 is that okay?"

I asked a straightforward question: "Why are you wanting to do this?"
"Well Ric, our sales growth is at around 17% but it is only just keeping in front of our uncontrolled attrition rate of about 15%."
"What is uncontrolled attrition, Pam?"
"Well, that is business and clients who leave us for reasons beyond our control. Changes in technology, changes in their business, geographic moves, new markets, differing tastes of their customers, etc."
"How do you know this, Pam?"
"Oh, we did a survey."
"Fair enough. Who did the survey?"
"Our BDMs."
"Oh. Pam, how about you provide me the contact details of a dozen key clients who have left you in the last year?"

When I contacted the twelve companies, eleven of them had left because of regularly incorrect invoicing by the accounts department, delays and errors in distribution by the stores and warehousing department, or poor customer service by the BDMs.

I met with Pam. Gave her the results of my findings.
"Damn. Well, Ric what should we do about this?"
"Well a training program to improve sales growth is pointless because your organization won`t measure up for the new clients either. What you have here is a cultural problem and your department heads are not managing their people appropriately. If I can ask you a few questions, I can have a proposal with some options for you on your desk tomorrow."

My three consulting (not sales training) proposal options ranged from $35,000 to $110,000. Pam chose the middle option of $85,000 and has since been a regular client. The consulting project worked to reduce the "uncontrolled attrition" from 15% down to less than 5%. I, nor any other consultant or training provider, would have had much hope of increasing long-lived sales growth by 10% within six months!

Think this through for a moment. If I had just given her what she wanted, I would not have really helped her, because her premise was wrong. And, if I put on my website that my consulting projects "ball park" prices are around $85,000 would she have called?

The client and her organization are far better off from my work than if I had done a "training program" and my bank manager and wife are much more pleased with me earning an $85,000 project than a $15,000 training course.
Rgds,
Ric
RicWillmot2/29/2008 8:20 PM
By houseofjerkyjanie 746 Days Ago
0 points

Ric,

My feeling on this is,.. that`s why you should, give `some` idea of your pricing, if not on your website, as soon as you make contact. I don`t believe many startups would ever consider spending that kind of money in the beginning, unless they had investors or a lot of money to start a new business. So, Ric, don`t you think the new potential client that is seeking out some one`s help, would be wasting your time and theirs?

Janie

houseofjerkyjanie2/29/2008 8:29 PM
By RicWillmot 746 Days Ago
0 points
Hi Janie,
Consider the process of my answer more than the content.
The process is still exactly the same, even if you more than halve the figures!

You offer a "professional service" at $5,000 when if you take the time and effort to determine what the client really needs, she may have use of $8,500 of your advice and service.

Or even still a $500 service when it may be $850.
Don`t get hung up on the numbers; focus on my process. I believe those of us in the professional services arena have an ethical responsibility not to just take the client`s money but to help improve the client`s condition.

The medical profession has a creed: "First, do no harm."
But that is not enough for those of us as practicing professionals.
We don`t simply get paid for "not screwing things up."
We get paid to ensure that our clients are significantly better off, after we have performed our work, than the client was before we arrived.
It`s not a matter of doing no harm, but doing great good.
If we allow our clients to tell us what they want and just accept it, while they prematurely focus on fees, we are letting them down.

Rgds,
Ric
RicWillmot2/29/2008 8:13 PM
By CraigL 746 Days Ago
0 points
Ric, that`s a terrific example, and once again, is seriously helpful. So here`s what I`m seeing: It appears as if we have a nearly complete split between tangible products and professional services, in terms of letting potential customers know something about price.

I completely understand the idea that offering price can place a severe *limit* on what might have been, and that for services, which are so variable, there are other ways. I get that.

Another good example would be a physician, where you go in because you`re feeling very ill. You don`t really care what the doctor`s rates might be, you care more about their reputation and competence. You want to be cured, and whatever that costs, you`ll figure it out later.

In your example, you picked up the client through a referral, not a Web page. In the physician example, it`s usually the same---reputation, not a Web page.

What about Web pages then?

Just rereading your response to Janie, I also see the same concept in up-selling with tangible goods. Someone comes in and wants a boom box, but what they really need is a home theater system. That happens all the time as well. But on a Web page, you would show pricing for everything between a boombox and a total theater system, then have a page that speaks to customized home wiring.

In the customized page, you could describe low, middle, and high-end custom jobs done for other clients, and indicate that you "can meet anyone`s needs." You`d also indicate that you use only the finest equipment, all wiring is c-5, and so forth.

So I guess I`m thinking that although you wouldn`t necessarily say that "home customization varies between $10,000 and upward; by referencing the quality materials, you`re at least letting viewers know (again, to the Web page) that you`re not coming in and wiring their house for $200. Right?

CraigL2008-2-29 23:42:13
By RicWillmot 745 Days Ago
0 points
Craig,
Ric`s Rule on Pricing: "Products can be price-tagged, services require sensibility."
If you are selling products, (and in your example entertainment systems) the first point of difference to be determined is: who is your target market?

If you are low-end, e.g., Tandy or Best-Buy, you have prices on your website and you go for sales and that is it.

But if you decide you want the upper-end of the market-spend, then I would have two streams to the website. One with up-market products and their prices attached. And, I would add extended warranty options on all products. The second stream would be that I personally would charge a consultation fee to come to your premises, learn about your wants, ask intelligent questions to assess your needs, gain from you what your investment range is, and then provide you with options* based upon my best advice given all of these factors and the layout design of the premises where the system is to be installed. This consultation fee would be off-set against the purchase should you go ahead.

Now I know that someone here on the forum is going to say: "Well if you want to sell your theatre system to me, come and do the assessment for free, because if I decide to buy, you will make a lot of profit."

"Mr Prospect, I appreciate your feelings. If we did every assessment for free, we would never have the time to guarantee the highest level of customer service and support to our paying customers. And I am certain that when you are a paying customer of ours, you will appreciate and expect our best attention. Our approach is that we will do the analysis and provide you with a written report of how you should install the system given your needs, and your premises design. You can then take that report and implement yourself if you wish. That alone is worth the price of admission. But if you need any further convincing, it is that when we have been paid for our advice, we are not then concerned with making a sale, but with giving you the best advice. So you can be assured that what we recommend is the best for you, not for us."

##########
*If the prospect gives me an investment range of $10,000 to $12,500 for their home entertainment system, I would provide three options containing my BEST advice specifically for that client and their circumstances.
1. Option 1 at 90% - 100% of the low-end
2. Option 2 at 90% - 100% of the high-end
3. Option 3 at 110% - 125% of the high-end
Then let the client decide what makes best sense for them. Subtly, what you have now done is changed the buying decision from "Should I buy my theatre system from Ric?" to "Which theatre system option will I buy from Ric?"

Why do I offer the third option above their maximum stated budget?
Not once in my career has a client said to me, "Ric, I love your option 3, but I think it`s worth more money. I am going to pay you more than you asked."
Taking this approach, (knowing that the option provides significantly higher value than option 2) it gives the client a choice. And, in upper-end markets, if the client can find $12,500 for a theatre system, they can probably find $13,500 for the system. How many times have you bought an upgraded model or add-on options that took you over your intended budget? Plenty!

Does that help?
Rgds,
Ric
RicWillmot3/1/2008 1:32 AM
By CraigL 745 Days Ago
0 points
I gotta say...that logic thing is pretty attractive. :-D
Bottom line---two "pathways" on the Web site.
I like it!
By PeterCPA 745 Days Ago
0 points
I am going to give Ric a big plug here. His advice in this area to me personally (I am a client of his now) has produced a dramatic improvement in our accounting business.
He can be a little confronting at times but it`s because he cares only about helping you not about being your friend. His approaches and strategies that he asks you to take with your business are challenging and scary, but they work. And this has been a really good discussion topic, Craig. Thanks for putting it forward and driving it.

Peter
By houseofjerkyjanie 745 Days Ago
0 points

Ric,

Thanks for the explanation. I have a better idea now, of how you do things. :)

Janie
By RicWillmot 745 Days Ago
0 points

You`re welcome, Janie.
By mcSol 742 Days Ago
0 points
I don`t reveal pricing on my site, but I don`t sell products either.

I agree that it`s imperative to list pricing for products. That`s ridiculous to make consumers jump threw hoops for something simple like stamps.

For services, I think if people are price shopping and are only concerned with the cheapest, rather than the most qualified, I don`t care if they click away from my page, never to return. They`re not my ideal client and there`s no love lost.

The people that I enjoy working with take the step to contact me because they like what they see on my website and want to know more.
By Vannie 742 Days Ago
0 points

I am in direct selling/MLM, my company is one of the few that immediately shows you the sign up cost. When you go to the "join us" page, all of the information you need is there. It`s one of the reasons I signed on with them years ago. Also, as a consumer I want to know the price up front, so why wouldn`t someone else want the same?

I don`t believe that you should have to "sign up to get information on this amazing offer", or that you have to search for a price. I know that there are some businesses that cannot give you a `set in stone` price, but they can give a price range, ask that you request more information. This way no ones time is wasted. If the cost is too much, you move on. It saves time for all involved.
By BetterSalesResults 742 Days Ago
0 points

Ahh - the age old question of "pricing"...

The rule of thumb (for me anyway), has always been to be completely up-front with my pricing - or as much as I possibly can be given the circumstances (more on that in a second). Ultimately, I lean heavily on the "do unto others..." motto and deal with price in the same way I would want to be exposed to price.

So the quick answer to the question is not necessarily "it`s impossible to answer", just that there`s no real single answer - at least imho.

The way I see it is this: Price should never be divulged until an equivalent or greater value for the product or service has been defined.

So for a simple product or service, this can very often be done with great ease.

However, for more complex sales situations, its often required for you to clearly define the customer`s needs before you can effectively quote a price. For most complex sales, the customer is aware they need to have their needs assessed - so they hold off on price until they either see a firm value, or a complete assessment of their needs.

However, for the odd customer who won`t proceed without price being addressed first (and these particular customers almost always seem to cause undue heartache throughout the entire sales process!), I give them a price range, and an explanation of that price range, and why we need to assess their needs in order to narrow down that range.

And remember - the customer will always and without fail, think your price is too high, unless you`ve effectively conveyed value equal to, or in excess of the price.
By CraigL 741 Days Ago
0 points

The way I see it is this: Price should never be divulged until an equivalent or greater value for the product or service has been defined.

I really like this, and think I`ll steal it. :-D

If we think of the price as a trade in exchange for the value, I`m seeing a whole lot of things become clear.

I guess what sparked this topic for me is the number of times I see this ongoing series of questions about do I want this, would this work, wouldn`t I love this? Then, "sign here, and we`ll send it to you." They never tell you the "it" or the price, until you`ve signed up.

However, the places I respect show me what I`d be getting for the money in some shape or form. That`s where I think Ric`s idea of the two pathways on a site that sells both items and services makes sense. It`s the valuation that`s different to explain in the two areas.

Ultimately, this topic then comes all the way back to "pet peeves" for Web sites, and the never-ending number of sites that don`t at all say what the company *offers.*
By besthealth 733 Days Ago
0 points
It depends on the service that you provide. Some services would be best negotiated with the client. In my area of service, we would not display prices - it`s very competitive - you want to offer your client a great deal without selling your service too low.
By daleyfla99 725 Days Ago
0 points

You know, I have to agree with Ric`s approach, as I too sell mostly intangibles. And I think Mark has also hit the nail on the head, as I have been in sales for 30 years, and have always practiced relationship selling. When you have communicated your value, price is never an issue. When talking with a new client, I give them a range for my prices, because it does depend on the amount of work involved. A small business with few transactions should and does not pay the same price as medium and large sized businesses. When the price falls in the range I never have a problem with it. If the price is outside of the range, then it is a problem.

As to tangibles, on www.ourbestidea.com, we disclose the prices in the webshop or on the Chakra jewelry page directly, not the home page. With a product, I too will not consider buying it if the price is not disclosed or at least hinted at in the sales page.

Which brings me to a pet peeve of the internet and selling on it. Stop with the 1000 word sales letters already! If I have clicked through to your page, I am at least interested in your product. Cut to the chase, tell me how it benefits me and sell me the product! Studies prove I am going to spend no more than 15 seconds scanning your page. Give me a way to buy near the top please even if it is only a click here to buy button.

Also, consider whether your product is a want or a need. That differentiates your message. Think from your customer`s point of view, not your own. Then, design your selling to meet either their want or their need.

Anyway, that`s my thoughts.

Show 6-10 of 30 discussions

By CraigL 666 Days Ago
0 points
With the economy in a bit of a turmoil, and everyone talking about "the future," I`ve been thinking about how many steps into the future people plan. Where do we get the practice? How do we learn to juggle many variables, scenarios, probabilities, and interacting forces?

I learned to play chess as a kid, played it all the time, then sort of lost interest or got busy. But I enjoyed the game particularly because it made me think ten or so moves into the future. I had to visualize actions and reactions, but also learn how to "guess" what my opponent would most likely choose to do.

Whether it`s a human being or "stuff" you`re competing with and against, how did you learn to think ahead? How far do you tend to think ahead....days, weeks, months, years?

By CraigL 625 Days Ago
0 points
We`ve got the whole spectrum of entrepreneurial spirit, here on Startup Nation. There are folks thinking about starting a business; those with an idea that`s going to really make some money; those getting a plan together, and those currently in the process.

Lots of people get a vision, see an idea for a business, and sort of gloss over the "from here to there" part of things. In maybe half the cases, folks think they`ll go get some money to fund the new idea, and they`ll mostly work on daily operations. In other instances, people figure they`ll "get a business," all in one step, then "make money" in Step 2.

With all the people here who currently are running a business, maybe it`d be helpful to get a sense of about how long does it take before this new idea brings in enough money to pay the bills and replace working for someone else?

We`ve been in business about 1-1/2 years, and we`re starting to get some regular sales each month. It`s not enough to hire employees, nor is it enough that we can say we have a full-fledged career yet. We`re not making enough to compare well with a day job. Based on trends, we`re thinking it`ll take yet another year before we can say we have regular annual revenues.

So how long can someone generally expect to project before they`ll be able to make a living completely from their new business idea? In our situation, I`m not even counting the year it took to hone the basic idea into the eventual product, work out the bugs, build a simple Web site, and "open for business" to the general public.

CraigL2008-6-29 15:39:54
By houseofjerkyjanie 625 Days Ago
0 points

True, ...it takes time,.... unless you have` that` fabulous product that hits the big time right away. And I congratulate the companies/ and or the people, that are able to do that!

Janie
By CraigL 624 Days Ago
0 points
I`m not sure I believe there are products that hit "immediately." It reminds me too much of the "overnight hit" bands, that took 5-10 years before they suddenly swept onto the scene. Thinking about it, I can`t seem to recall a single product that`s become a hit within 1 year of its first prototype or inspiration.....?
By CampSteve 624 Days Ago
0 points
My partners and I have been working on Zingerding for a year and a half. We haven`t launched the site yet so obviously we haven`t made any money. We hope to within a year of launch but of course there`s no guarantee. We`re confident though. :)
By CraigL 623 Days Ago
0 points
See, that`s another thing! People figure they`ll have an idea, get a Web site, lots of people will show up, and they`ll be instantly rich.

Making the Web site is a big issue and doesn`t always happen overnight. Plus, there`s that whole "business is about making some money" thingie. :-D
By MiteyMite 623 Days Ago
0 points

The 3-5 year range seems to be the norm for me. I don`t think we`ve ever had our heads above water til we got into the 3rd year in any of our ventures. It`s been consistently that way over the past 25 years. Even now, we`re 2 years into the latest business and we`re not yet quite there.

Show 6-6 of 6 discussions

By CraigL 601 Days Ago
0 points
Seth Godin talks about "the Dip," where a business has passed the initial market phase, and now has to pass the mountainside of growing really big, or perhaps walking away. It`s that point where you want to or need to start handling high-volume orders, and that may not be possible. You may have to stay a boutique business forever.

But there`s another part of this, sometimes called "burnout," but I don`t think that`s an approporiate description. It`s where you`ve finally reached a leveling off point, and the business is starting to have some regular schedules. Orders are coming in, maybe slowly, but definitely and steadily.

You`re no longer scrambling to solve problems, no longer inventing new things to handle unforeseen problems. You`re working each week, and there`s almost a vague sense that perhaps you can have a real schedule. And at that point, you look into the future.

Is this what you want to be doing for the rest of your life? Is it maybe a little bit like drudge work? Sure, it`s still interesting, but it`s not adrenaline-rush exciting and panic-striking anxiety anymore, in a rollercoaster of bipolar emotions. Is this all there is?

Maybe you`re looking at outsourcing or ramping up your manufacturing and wondering how that`s going to happen. Where will the money come from? Is it even possible to have someone else make this thing? And what about a service business---can you train your replacement? Can you even train anyone to stand in for you if you`re ill or need a vacation?

Anyone going through this? :-) We`re still, and certainly passionate about having our own business, and it`s still very cool to have ongoing orders. But it`s looking almost impossible to make the next step. In the meantime, we`re feeling more like a weekly "job" now that we`ve worked out all the processes, solved most of the production problems, and gotten into a decent routine. How about you guys?

By CraigL 570 Days Ago
0 points
One of the most peculiar things I`ve seen is the human ability to totally dissociate ourselves from an idea. It`s amazing, yet we do it all the time. Nowhere is it more obvious than in e-commerce, startup business development, and online selling.

If we were to use common sense, we`d know that as soon as we put up a Web site designed to sell something, we can test it by being a customer. And yet, it seems as though only a tiny percentage of people ever do this.

To me, that indicates that most people have never purchased anything, ever, at any time in their lives, from anyone. They have no concept or actual experience trying to buy something, so it makes sense that when they start a business they don`t allow for customers.

I thought I`d test my theory with this poll. :-)
By gliderjockey 570 Days Ago
0 points

Craig,

Are you asking if people have ever purchased anything online at all, or more specifically from their own e-commerce site?

But your point is well taken. People should actually try to use the software they write. Where I work currently (23 days and counting down!!! :-), we use the stuff we build, and call it dogfooding. Most stuff that gets dogfooded turns out pretty usable. The stuff that doesn`t get dogfooded, you can tell.

Thanks,

Steve
By CraigL 570 Days Ago
0 points
I`m asking if people have ever spent money to purchase anything at all, ever, in the course of their entire life, whether online or not.
By gliderjockey 570 Days Ago
0 points

Interesting. I guess I would have figured that everyone has been a customer at one point in their life. So do you think we have people who have set up business who have never been customers?

Steve
By CraigL 570 Days Ago
0 points
Yes, that`s my theory, based on looking at how so many e-commerce Web sites are designed.
By stonesledge 569 Days Ago
0 points

Based on what is out there, this would be something to ask..great question Craig.. and yes.. i will email you (everything is perfect btw).

I love the one about being 5...very cute!! :)

Erin
By CraigL 569 Days Ago
0 points
I see we truly do have a wide range of members, here on Startup Nation. But, as the saying goes, you can never be too young to start a business! :-)

Show 6-7 of 7 discussions

By CraigL 540 Days Ago
0 points
I heard today that retailers are forecasting the worst holiday season in 10 years. That`s fine, but we also know that e-commerce is growing exponentially each year. With massive lines, gas prices, the hassle of malls, and everything else, more and more people seem to shop online for holiday gifts.

That favors the micro-business sector. So as banks enter jeopardy, potentially ending up nationalized, and a proposed three-quarter-TRILLION dollar bailout plan coming down the pike, will that affect average people? Or will it only affect wealthy investors and large institutions?

Is there anything in particular you can do to weather a storm, in the event one takes place? In our case, there`s not much we can do about it, other than just keep going along, hoping to pick up customers less affected by these financial problems.

CraigL2008-9-22 21:44:32
By houseofjerkyjanie 539 Days Ago
0 points

Oh, don`t you dislike all these forecasts?? Hopefully it won`t put a damper on everything. After all, holidays are a time we should look forward to.

Weathering a storm? I have no suggestions. Hopefully we can all still make money, and spend money!

Janie
By CraigL 539 Days Ago
0 points
With the Federal Reserve about to print a trillion new dollars, backed by nothing other than air, I`m sure we`ll all get money. The question is what will that money actually buy. :-) We may NEED those emergency rations of jerky!
By houseofjerkyjanie 539 Days Ago
0 points

You may. Good food to have for an emergency!! No refrigeration needed!!

Yeah, since it`s not needed to be backed by gold anymore, I just say PRINT MORE MONEY for all of us!!!!
By SilenceDogood 539 Days Ago
0 points
I just had to vote "buy a bank." Very funny and yet not so funny.

But if you think about it - that is exactly what all of us productive citizens are doing. We are, by force of big brother, buying up the banks with our tax dollars. Well, those that have not already been bought by China.
By Nuevolution 539 Days Ago
0 points
CraigL,
I was just reading an article where major department stores are gearing up and advertising Christmas in September... As a matter a fact I got this email from Rackspace last month, with a huge present on the front and it read "Be ahead of your competition, be the first to sell to your clients"...
What happened to Halloween, and Thanksgiving? Most of all what happened to the Holiday spirit? What happened to us? What are we teaching the young? that in order for us to have a good Holiday season "it all comes down to presents, and materialistic items"? Where did the family gatherings go? It`s not materialistic items and presents that make the world go round, it`s "Family".
Look how far our federal reserve has gone, printing money with no value? But yet I read a newspaper heading yesterday where Bush wants to put $7-billion into the economy? How? and why ever since Bush Came into the white house, that`s all we`ve heard: 100 billion into this, 20 billion into this, and that....where is all that money? One thing I know for sure, once bush gets out of the white house, he`s going to be filthy rich along with all of his buddies.
You want to talk about a stimulus pack? Can $300.00 dollars really stimulate anything these days?
Another heading I read "China is nervous about the American Economy" Why did we open the doors to them? Why didn`t we keep all the jobs in the USA? Because these huge companies didn`t want to pay the American People, they rather go and exploit people and pay them less than the minimum wage.
Lets take HP for example: in 2003 they announced they were going to lay-off 2,300 people in Mountain View CA (that`s where they`re at) because they were going to move the plant to Malaysia or China. Now we have 2,300 people heading for Unemployment not being able to afford what they once could. 6 Months later they ship all the stuff in from Malaysia or China in to the USA, and want to sell their products perhaps to the 2,300 people they laid-off? That is wrong!
What we need to do is bring back all the American Companies back to the USA, hire Americans.and watch our economy grow NOW THAT is a "STIMULUS PACKAGE"
By CraigL 539 Days Ago
0 points

CraigL,
I was just reading an article where major department stores are gearing up and advertising Christmas in September... As a matter a fact I got this email from Rackspace last month, with a huge present on the front and it read "Be ahead of your competition, be the first to sell to your clients"...
What happened to Halloween, and Thanksgiving?......

America is becoming "lean and mean!" We`ve got to get more efficient, faster, and better at things. To do this, we`ve compressed the holidays into HallowThankMas (HTM, for short). It`s not that we`ve lost Halloween and Thanksgiving, it`s that they`re folded into a single holiday that lasts 4 months (September - December).

Nah....it`s just that nothing has real value anymore, in so many people`s mind. We think we have money, but with a "fiat" money system, it isn`t worth anything. It`s only worth what the government tries to tell us it`s worth---by pronouncement or fiat.

China has nothing to sell of its own, and only exports products made for other countries. If the US runs out of money, there won`t be any products to make, so China`s economy will start to stagnate. If we have no money, we can`t pay the massive debt we owe to Chinese banks. That`s why they`re worried.

I`m with Silence, above. We`re gonna buy a bank, make our own cheap money and export it to China. The money we print will be different in that the first time you use it, it falls apart. :-)

CraigL2008-9-23 15:52:30

Show 6-7 of 7 discussions

By CraigL 409 Days Ago
0 points
It`s strange. Nobody likes to discuss a future where things continue to be economically tough or might get worse. It doesn`t seem to matter whether or not analysis can help strategic positioning, it`s "bad vibes, man."

I suspect two forces at work. The one is simply denial. Nobody wants to talk about what might happen because it`s just so scary that it`s impossible to deal with.

The second is half a century of magical thinking, where "thinking positively" somehow changes the world immediately. Ergo, to even talk about negative possibilities is criminal in that it`s causing the problem itself.

Fine, if you don`t like negative vibes, then don`t read this post.

For the rest of the world, there`s no question that understanding trends and probabilities, then applying reasoned analysis is a good thing. It determines investments for the future, product lines, business tactics, directions in marketing, and solutions to changing circumstances.

We have many economic "gurus" telling us that we`re at the bottom now, and we`re experiencing a "near depression" that`s not really a depression; it`s sort of a depression but it could be a recession; it isn`t happening yet, maybe, but could happen possibly, we don`t know, we`re not sure.....who knows!

Other people, examining the underlying fundamentals of economics and a century of what turns out to be wrong thinking, don`t agree. Those would argue that we`ve built a house of cards for decades and decades, with little thought to "paying the final bill."

That bill is about to come due.

At issue isn`t the number for the Dow Jones average. Instead, it`s a supposition of what sort of economy we`re likely going to see over the next 10 years. With that in mind, we can think about strategies and ways to survive.

Additionally, if we look at an investment market that loses 75% of its value, does that mean the real world has magically lost all that value? Did the money go somewhere? Is the stock market an accurate reflection of that real world?

Finally, in a situation where publicly held corporations are collapsing, what business opportunities can we develop that don`t include those corporations? "Think Big" usually includes eventually "going public." What if that can`t happen anymore?
By CraigL 408 Days Ago
0 points
WorldNetDaily.com
Stimulus-plan doubts push Dow under 8,000
Investors lack confidence in $1 trillion presidential plan

The week also saw the euro decline as the dollar advanced, with the dollar closing on Friday at $1.28/euro.

The euro decline alarmed billionaire investor George Soros, who declared from Davos that the euro might not "survive," unless the European Union pushes for a global plan to deal with the toxic debt assets held by financial institutions worldwide, according to Bloomberg.

All week, Soros joined with other globalists at Davos in proclaiming a need for the United States to follow Sweden`s model in the 1990s of nationalizing banks after allowing the current private owners of the banks to take the hit for the trillions in worthless Collateralized Debt Obligations the banks hold in their portfolios.

The other theme Soros championed all week was that the world economic community needs governmental structures capable of regulating the world economy on a global basis.

In advancing this theme, Soros underscored that economic structures such as the World Trade Organization, or WTO, and the North American Free Trade Act, or NAFTA, were only the prelude to a governmental regulatory structure that ultimately will include regional, if not global, central banks and bureaucratic regulators setting the administrative rules by which "free trade" markets will operate.

CraigL2009-2-1 16:26:40
By patentandtrademark 407 Days Ago
0 points

The dow will level out at the number of "historical commemorative" coins sold. It’s sad how Montel Williams has taken to hawking Barack Obama commemorative coins.

http://blogs.tampabay.com/media/2008/12/montel-williams.html
By vwebworld 406 Days Ago
0 points

Also sad that the President tells "Wall Street" this is not the time for bonuses but a time for "transparency" yet proposes a "stimulus" package that is filled with social welfare and other programs that have little at all to do with stimulating anything.

Small business is typically the driver of stimulus for the economy.

So, why not provide tax breaks/reductions and stimulus for small business to grow.

~Roland
By idahobob 391 Days Ago
0 points

Have any of you given any thought to what imminent signs we might see before a panic? I`m in a secluded place but from up here, I can feel the rumblings...

Not just panic but mass panic. rioting and looting and the whole social upheaval that seems inevitable. economically, we have been "beyond" the point of no return for 10 years so here we go.. the system is getting cleaned out, more and more scams will be uncovered, and people are going to see just what has been hidden behind the golden curtain... smoke and mirrors.

I knoe people can be resilient and Americans are pretty tough but, everyone has their breaking point and i wonder what might happen if everyone breaks down at once?

so, what are the early indicators and are you making a plan in case of the worst?

What do you think the one thing that will happen that will trigger it? something big or maybe just one small thing?

I know the government and law enforcement have plans to deal with it when it happens but I just wonder if the people are.?

How low can the dow go? I`m thinking 5000 to 3500. (unless someone at the top can come up with a new smoke and mirror show and make everything seem great again?

idahobob2/18/2009 11:19 AM
By CraigL 390 Days Ago
0 points
All we can do is look at California, New York, Michigan, and Kansas. Those states are in the worst shape, and the way they decide to resolve their insolvency problem likely will show the way for how the overall country will go.

Of course bank runs would be an indicator, and I see Alan Greenspan has already suggested "nationalizing some of the banks for a limited time." Ya right...limited time...!

Additionally, we should look for discussion on wage and price freezes, dictated of course, by the Feds "for the good of the people."

When those events have happened, then the next step will move toward civil disobedience and protest marches. Just like the anti-war protesters did in the 1960s, only this time it`ll be the business owners and capitalists.
By houseofjerkyjanie 390 Days Ago
0 points
I`m so sorry, if I, or anyone else has had a true misunderstanding of how bad things are or how bad they might truly get. Because I just see so much money, still being spent. Is that nuts, do we not get a grip? It`s a crazy world now and... Obama`s helping us all out?

Craig, I still feel a little positive thinking and hope (as small as that can seem in the whole perspective) have to help a little. It`s not that I`m not realistic. We have to hope, pray and do all we can as individuals, and a Nation, that we will be smart enough to be able to handle this.

I, as most of us do not want to see the realities of a Depression or a Reccesion.

I`m so sorry for what you`re already seeing Bob.

Janie
By CraigL 390 Days Ago
0 points
One of the continuing arguments is that "positive thinking" is a strong help in such a difficult and critical time. The counter proposition is that all this negative talk is hurting rather than helping.

So let`s put it in perspective, from a conservative viewpoint.

Let`s say you notice some ants one summer afternoon, putzin` around the front stoop. No big deal, just ants. As the days go along, they seem to disappear. Even so, you still see some ants now and then.

A year goes by, then you see the ants around the porch. You notice a few of them have wings, which is weird. Who`s ever seen flying ants? Enh...no big deal, we`ll just put down some ant traps.

Another couple of years go by. You`re up in the attic crawlspace, and notice a bit of sawdust. Odd....but it reminds you of some sawdust you saw last year, downstairs...somewhere.

Yet another year goes by. You happen to be partying one night, and mention to a friend of yours from Florida that you once saw these weird flying ants. After some questions, he tells you they`re termites and you should do something about it.

So you call TeminX or Orkin, and they spray the house. Problem solved.

Ten or so years later, the house is up for inspection and re-appraisal. An inspector comes in and tells you the house is riddled with termites. He suggests major overhauling, otherwise the whole thing may come tumbling down.

You turn to the inspector and ask, "But can`t you have some positive thinking? Does everything you say have to be always bad news?

The time for positive thinking is when the problem is just developing, or has gotten a little bit out of hand. Positive thinking during the end-stages of a fatal crisis isn`t "positive thinking," it`s called "a hope and a prayer."

Yes, a miracle might happen. Aliens from a planet where they consider gold to be garbage might land to get rid of the piles of garbage gold they have. God might cause a couple of meadows to turn to gold. But until that happens, we`re in the endstage period now.

We`ve had reports of no savings at all for more than 25 years. In the past three years, economists have warned that America is actually in negative savings, which they`ve never really heard of for a country before. People don`t even think of cash or savings when they wonder if they have money.

Instead, they look at how much left they have on a credit card limit. That`s not money, that`s debt. We have no accumulated savings, no cash, and very low productivity. The American lifestyle has stayed the same, but the cost of living has gone up for years. No warning signs were ever heeded, and nothing ever was done.

Congress just spent and spent and spent. Americans spent on credit card after credit card after home-equity loan. Nobody ever considered how or when they would pay off the loans, they just had a lot of "positive thinking." As Scarlett O`Hare would say, "Fiddle-di-Dee, tomorrow`s another day."

And today is that tomorrow.

CraigL2009-2-19 2:9:9
By houseofjerkyjanie 390 Days Ago
0 points
Yikes, I have to tend to agree, but for some reason I still "believe", or I guess we should all hope the world, if it`s that bad.. would,.... end soon??

Let`s have HOPE that we all can do what we can to change things. Doom and gloom, if it`s reality now, we can look forward, to what we can change. If not. what else is there than the doom and gloom we can talk about?
houseofjerkyjanie2/19/2009 2:39 AM
By CraigL 390 Days Ago
0 points
No, it`s not about the world coming to an end. :-) It`s about a lot of pain, now required in order to usher in a new world. We`ve lived for 100 years with a bad economic scheme. We`ve lived for 300 years under a really bad "split" in two fundamental philosophies.

To take 10-15 years to let those old systems collapse, then open the way for some new thinking isn`t really much of anything in terms of the history of the country or world.

Too many people are so intolerant of pain and hurt feelings, they`ve simply lost sight completely of the fact that the world is a tough place. "Survival of the fittest" is the law of Nature, not some ideological slogan. People live, people die, and the world continues onward.

We have almost two generations who truly believe they can legislate pain and unfairness out of existence. They believe the government actually has their best interests at heart, and that any government actually can produce anything at all. It`s pure fantasy and delusion, but that group actually believes in fantasy and delusion.

All we`re doing is wiping out those who don`t care to deal with reality. We`re eliminating---culling from the herd---those who suppose fantasy is equal to reality. It won`t take all that long, and the result will be a true restructuring.

It`s not like history is going into liquidation. :-) It`s rather than the current set of generations is having to get back to what matters in life, and take into account the consequences of our actions. Basic physics, and the fact that causes have effects.
By idahobob 390 Days Ago
0 points

it`s not a bad thing to "hope" as long as you understand that hoping doesn`t change the situation, it just changes how you feel about it... for a lot of people, it`s theeir only defense against reality and the only way for people to deal with the reality... SOmething to keep them going to the next day. like a carrot on a stick.

Like falling off a cliff... before you fall, you say, I hope i don`t fall...

than as you are falling you say I hope i don`t get hurt

as your bones are breaking you say I hope i live through this..

and when you hit the ground you say I hope help comes..

as you can see, hope only gets you through to the next thing to hope for...

Instead of hoping you don`t fall, it would have been better to exercise a little caution and look at the cliff in a more realistic way.

Craig, well said. It`s going to be interesting for sure. I`m "hoping" we will be better off if we survive it:)

idahobob2/19/2009 12:15 PM
By vwebworld 390 Days Ago
0 points

Unfortunately, recent actions by our government do little to induce people to change.

We are now giving more money to people and companies who would have otherwise "suffered" the consequences of their own actions.

Years ago Congress enacted legislation directing banks to lend to people who shouldn`t have gotten a mortgage. The banks did just that... and when people couldn`t pay everyone acted surprised and the congress blamed the banks.

Now following the direction of the Pres. banks and the Governemnt will be extending credit terms to those same people. We already know that the people who were saved from foreclosure a number of months ago... are back in foreclosure. I don`t know how the government thinks the latest action will change that.

Let`s see - we tried this and it didn`t work so lets do it again.

~Roland
By CraigL 390 Days Ago
0 points
California finally passed a state budget for the next 18 months. And of course they raised the sales tax, gas tax, and state income tax. They agreed to put a moratorium on politicians` salary increases and a cap on per diems, the money they get reimbursed for lunches and travel.

However!...IF the state gets the "expected funds from the federal stimulus package," ALL those pay CUTS and whatever minor reductions in program CUTS will be restored!

That`s how we got into this situation. California demonstrates that we, as a nation, are far removed from the real pain of having to actually live within out means.

The average citizen must live within their means. But California shows us that the "lawmakers" couldn`t care less what the financial situation actually is. They have zero intention of cutting costs, cutting spending, or in any way reducing in the slightest their salaries and perks.

So you want to know what`s coming for the rest of the country? The exact same thing we just saw in California. The US government, politicians in Washington, and politicians in all the states will do their damnedest to keep their salaries, cars, luxuries, homes, perks, and off-budget incomes.

The rest of us will go broke.

CraigL2009-2-19 14:22:38
By idahobob 390 Days Ago
0 points

what it reminds me of is the sudden spending spree / frenzy that [people go through just before they file for bankruptcy.

The gov`t is spending as fast as it can and running up the credit cards... it`s the logical thing to do... just spend as much as we can as fast as we can on the things that we really need to be as self sufficient (infrastructure, health, research, etc) because they have no intention of ever paying it back...all we can do now is when the time comes, when it is simply impossible to borrow another single dollar... just go bankrupt. "well, we owe too much so, that`s it... now we need a do-over. it didn`t work so, failed experiment, let`s try something different". nobody spends this kind of money with any real expectations of repaying it...

Bankrupting the rest of the world with us in the process of course but... you know, if you owe the bank a little, they own you... but if you owe the bank a LOT... you own them.

This would actually put us in a much better position so, they are probably going on the thinking that "the worse it get`s, the more we owe, the better it will be". as soon as the country goes bankrupt, I`d imagine their would be every country in the world wanting to give us credit again but, that`s just my gut feeling.

Or, negotiate all of our national debt down to a fraction of what we owe... "hey, you want your money, take this or take nothing". were Americans, we know how to play hardball. but it`s maybe better to just take the nice approach... "oh, we are very sorry to do this but we can`t pay you back china... sorry."

So, in that light, it`s not really as bad as it may appear... and may explain some of these politicians attitudes towards it?

your not going to go broke, actually, you like a million other small companies are doing hell better than GM or Chrysler, California etc... you may be losing your money but your position in the food chain is going up. and, with the upcoming advancements in health, if you can just live another 5 years, the cure to anything that might kill you including old age should be available in pill form.

(that`s the rosy side of things)
By CraigL 389 Days Ago
0 points
Bob, if you carry the logic forward you`re basically proposing the same argument behind the theory we`re about to form a North American Alliance, get rid of the US dollar and introduce the "Amero." That would mean a new currency (backed by silver), a fundamental re-evaluation of the money, and a merger between Mexico, Canada and the US.

The two problems with that are that the European Economic Community isn`t all it`s cracked up to be, and secondly, what happens to the American culture and foundation. Nobody knows, but we do know that the current administration "feels" that America should be fundamentally changed.......in some way.
By houseofjerkyjanie 389 Days Ago
0 points

Aww.. let me share the email I got today, it seems fitting.:)

Do you know what happened this week back in 1850, 158 years ago?

                    California became a state.
                   The State had no electricity.
                   The State had no money.
                   Almost everyone spoke Spanish.
                   There were gunfights in the streets.
            So basically, it was just like California today!

sorry, I did leave off the part...except that women had real breasts... and one other part!. :) Guess you`ll just have to guess.

Still , I do continue to live with hope and belief that we can all will work on things to make it better.. I hope you`re not just thinking I`m just a dumb blond. :). If so, oh well. I realize what is going on. But I so sincerely hope we can all change it, and do what each of us can, to do so.. I know my Parent`s, were from Parent`s that did live in the days of the Depression.

Janie
By CraigL 388 Days Ago
0 points
Janie,
There`s no doubt we, as the human race, will work things out and make them better. World War II was about working things out, and when it was done, things were tremendously better.

Nobody`s arguing that things will get better. The only point of discussion is about how long it will take. :-)
By houseofjerkyjanie 388 Days Ago
0 points
Oh gosh, ugh,... I know
By proactive1 387 Days Ago
0 points

At issue isn`t the number for the Dow Jones average. Instead, it`s a supposition of what sort of economy we`re likely going to see over the next 10 years. With that in mind, we can think about strategies and ways to survive.

Additionally, if we look at an investment market that loses 75% of its value, does that mean the real world has magically lost all that value? Did the money go somewhere? Is the stock market an accurate reflection of that real world?

Finally, in a situation where publicly held corporations are collapsing, what business opportunities can we develop that don`t include those corporations? "Think Big" usually includes eventually "going public." What if that can`t happen anymore?

Craig,

Regarding the Dow, my gut feeling is that in 10 years we might see the number just about where it is now. Not to say that it couldn`t rally up to 9000 or even 10000 during that time; or, sink down to 6000 for that matter. An occurance of that nature happened during the 1970`s when the Dow languished around 1000 on the heels of an early `70`s recession. Correct me if I`m wrong. I was just a stupid teenager back then :-)

As far as stocks are concerned, I think there will be a precious few "buy and hold" candidates for at least the next 5 or 10 years. That strategy is near-dead for the most part save for perhaps what some experts refer to as "Obama Stocks" meaning infrastrucure, green and Wal-Mart. So if I`m investing right now, I`m learning about things like trend trading and divergence patterns rather than buy and hold. I think people are going to be hard pressed to recoup their losses in the Market the old fashioned way.

Furthermore, my view is that we ought to be prepared for a prolonged period of government intervention. And, with all this talk about stimulus, runaway inflation can`t be far behind, right? So I think people should find a "good bank" and put money in it; as much as they can and for goodness sake, stay out (or get out) of debt. It`s what we should have been doing all along but lost sight of. Beyond that, I don`t think socialism will replace capitalism in this country but get ready for a different way of life just the same.

Oh, one more thing: Beware of Sham Wow imitators!
By CraigL 387 Days Ago
0 points
Chuck,
I`ll agree about finding a good bank, but add the caveat that it should be a local bank, not an investment bank or one that`s ultimately owned by a Wall Street conglomerate.

Interesting thing, where it comes to runaway inflation: today`s news about the various states and their balanced budget needs.

The federal government can (and is now doing so) print money without any actual backing. But individual states can`t print money. The result is that each state is introducing significant tax increases, new fees, and cutting services.

No state is cutting back on government employees, bureaucrats or the regulatory process.

I wonder what will happen when the increase in local state taxes meets the flood of government fiat money? We already see a handful of states choosing NOT to accept federal stimulus money.

One reason is that if a Texas school system gets a flood of federal money from this package, they change the schools. For 1 year. Then the stimulus tsunami recedes. What`s left? Unsupported schools.

We`re also seeing a massive stop in consumer spending. In all previous examples of inflation, societies were using "cash" to pay bills and buy goods. Today, we use credit cards.

Suppose the government introduces a dollar that`s worth 1-cent in today`s terms. Does that increase spending, when people already have stopped spending because they don`t have any credit left on their cards?

A carton of eggs is a carton of real eggs. Today it costs around $2. With hyper inflation, it would cost $200. But if people are out of money on their credit cards would it really matter? And if all their cash has been stolen by their local state government, what`s left?

One option would be complete nationalization of the country, with government welfare across the board. The problem would be what would the government offer the farmer in exchange for that carton of eggs?

Another option would be the collapse of a national currency. Replace it with local state money, or money created by organizations of regional banks. It`d be similar to the Confederate money prior to the Civil War. Then we`d have an exchange rate between regions.
By mfackrell 386 Days Ago
0 points
I didn`t see 10 as an option . . .
By CraigL 385 Days Ago
0 points

Show 6-10 of 22 discussions

By CraigL 326 Days Ago
0 points
This is NOT a post about religion! The term "intelligent design" may imply conscious thought, but it isn`t meant to do so. It`s only a way to propose that life and existence have an interaction and meaning. It`s a way to describe the opposite of random accident.

I`m curious as to how many people, generally speaking, fully believe that regardless of our being able to comprehend a design, such a design does exist. That the universe is a symphony of harmony and disharmony.

Or how many people fully believe that existence is essentially random, with all of everything being a random set of accidents? Those accidents are entirely independent of all other events, but inform the next accident?

Just curious. :-)
By iNiko 325 Days Ago
0 points
Your position is very tricky: you either looking at this from a religious point of view or a scientific point of view. There is nothing in between. So please state which position do YOU take, and perhaps you`ll get someone to respond
By CraigL 325 Days Ago
0 points
No, I`m looking at this from either an organized or chaos perspective. If nobody believes anything, that`s fine. :-) I don`t particularly need to put my own decision down first. Religion has nothing to do with it at all. I`ll agree that some sort of spirituality might apply, but that would require a definition.

The reason for the question though is that it lies at the bottom of so many other aspects of life. Particularly today, with the economy. Some might say we have a down economy, presuming it`ll go up. Others might say it`s a changed economy, irrevocably changed. On what basis?

We can say that there`s a reason for the economy, or say that it`s simply a cumulative set of individually random events. Since we can`t at all prove either position, each of us simply chooses: which will it be?

Do events happen in a pattern for a reason, or do they happen randomly, with each event causing the next from moment to moment.
By NorthCountryDesign 325 Days Ago
0 points
Craigs`s post makes my head hurt. :(
By TheSoMeEx 325 Days Ago
0 points
LOL Shawn! And here I was thinking, "YAY! If only I had time to really focus on this debate..."

I`m heading out in a few for lunch, but I will come back to this, Craig. My vote is for design and organization. Not through religion (although that is possible), but through cause and effect, through pattern theory and so on.

Looking forward to this one. *smiles*
By patentandtrademark 325 Days Ago
0 points
It`s difficult to imagine intelligent design without a discussion of religion. I don`t know much about pattern theory but it probably does not leave much room for "intelligence" - only design based on "laws of nature" etc.
By CraigL 324 Days Ago
0 points
Here`s a way to imagine intelligent design without religion: a musical symphony.

First, imagine not being a musician, having no background in music theory, being unable to read music notation. In fact, imagine being blind, and the orchestra happens to be playing outside in an open cow pasture.

Would you think there`s a design to the symphony, hearing it for the first time? Would you also and automatically think it was God`s work?

I`m limited to the phrase "intelligent design" because it`s the one most people know, when speaking about organized patterns. Likewise, not many people understand process philosophy, nor do they understand chaos all that well.

So: Does a symphony arise out of random notes being struck, which then require additional notes in a harmonic formation, all by moment-to-moment, unrelated events? Or is there an organized pattern behind the symphony?

If there`s an organized pattern, does it call for some form of intelligence, even though it may not require a particular intent?
By TheSoMeEx 324 Days Ago
0 points
I think the problem here is the word intelligence, which implies an individual (or possible pantheon) to most people`s understanding.

I prefer the concept of nature as an intelligent force. Intelligent, yet unaware. Think to concepts like The Butterfly Effect. Small change here results in large change there. Why? Because it has to - everything is interconnected by design.

Not to say that life is an orchestra. It is not planned out... but perhaps your analogy of an orchestra in a cow pasture is a good one. There is planning and design, but there is randomness, too.

A cow may low once or several times as counterpoint. It may be pleasant or not with the music.

Birds may also sing.

The wind may blow and rustle papers.

A cellist may miss a note.

The rain may fall and interrupt the orchestra.

All random happenings (in the POV of the designer of the orchestral happening), but they are absorbed into the design and fabric of the pattern of life, and create cause and effect into something new, laying out new possibilities in the design framework for moving forward.

So, not entirely random. There is pattern and purpose in nature. But there is random as well. That is what I call living.

In fact, I would even say "random by design," since that is how I prefer my life/business to be led, but I am not sure I am ready to explain that on a forum this early on a Sunday morning. LOL!
By CraigL 324 Days Ago
0 points
I don`t think we can have an unaware intelligence, unless we were to say that Nature is in a coma? :-D

RE: I prefer the concept of nature as an intelligent force. Intelligent, yet unaware. Think to concepts like The Butterfly Effect. Small change here results in large change there. Why? Because it has to - everything is interconnected by design.

This actually is close to process philosophy. The butterfly flaps its wings on a random basis, just because if feels like it. But because of that random decision, the air around the butterfly now is affected.

The air moves, not because of a pattern or intention by Nature or some other "agent," only because it`s a direct effect of the flapping wings. At that point, the flapping wings no longer matter anymore, only the moving air.

Because the air moves, a shift takes place in the local atmosphere. From there, eventually we have a storm in Cuba. But each individual step is isolated. That, and its direct cause are a unit of 2 actions.

In other words, all of existence is only a closed unit of 2 events. The one is the cause, the other is the effect. From there, the next effect---the result of the first cause---has nothing to do with the first.

Everything is unfolding and happening in a linear progression, but beneath all that there isn`t any particular design as a whole.

CraigL2009-4-26 15:22:56
By TheSoMeEx 324 Days Ago
0 points
I believe there is a particular design... Like a business plan, if you will. Yet not everything can be encompassed into that plan, even though everything that happens can and will affect that plan, perhaps even change the course of that plan.

The design is not something (to me) like the rapture or what have you, but a specific set of milestones that are to be reached for each atom, creature, planet, solar system, and universe from conception to completion.
By CraigL 323 Days Ago
0 points
What`s interesting to me, and underlies the reason for the topic, is the concept of hope.

We`re faced with all sorts of problems these days. We see many, many things taking place beyond our immediate control. Historic actions over nearly an entire century have led to our current situation.

What can we do? How will we go forward? How do we remain optimistic in the face of never-ending bad news?

When everything seems to be falling apart, and there doesn`t seem to be much of anything we can do about it, we have an option. We can hope or we can say there`s no such thing as hope.

But if we`re going to call upon hope, we need a conceptual definition of the term. What specifically is hope?

Hope is an expectation of a beneficial change without any sense of how that change might come about.

The key word is "beneficial." We can look at luck, but there`s a 50-50 chance that we`ll be killed or rescued. To even say "rescue" we have to include a sense of some sort of meaningful intervention. And that implies "by what...or whom?"

In other words, hope is based on nothing at all...except one, single belief system: an organized universe. Without a core and fundamental belief that there is some sort of meaning to life, there can`t be any hope.

"Meaning" tends to include some sort of extra-physical arena of life and existence. Call it spirituality, religion, or supernatural, it doesn`t really matter. What matters is that if we hold that there is some kind of organization, there there also must be some sort of meaning.

That meaning may be totally beyond our comprehension. But without a sense of organization and meaning, there can`t be any hope.

Hope is a choice. The choice rests entirely upon your cardinal premise of life. No philosophy can ever be proven absolutely true (or false). ALL philosophies are a willful choice. Our "integrity" is how much and under what conditions we`ll adhere to our chosen philosophy.

Even if you don`t choose a template philosophy, you still build a sense of how life works. That`s your choice. Your sense of life can be more or less organized, more or less consistent. But nobody goes through life without some sort of rules---a belief system.

The choice you make determines whether or not you get to have hope when things look gloomy. Otherwise, all you`re left with is random luck and happenstance.

You`re not even allowed to use probability theory, because chaos has no prediction or pattern. Nothing you do now will affect what results or happens next. No laws of anything apply, including the laws of physics.

Without organized pattern and design, whatever happens in any given moment is just a lucky accident. You might be successful today, and fail utterly tomorrow. Nothing you can do about it, that`s just the way of the luck.

Unless you choose to sacrifice your integrity and strive for hypocrisy, you can`t even say, "I hope I have good luck." That`s a contradiction in terms.

CraigL2009-4-27 2:8:59

Show 6-10 of 11 discussions

By CraigL 279 Days Ago
0 points
We`ve all heard about the forced bankruptcy deal the current administration put onto Chrysler. One of the key aspects was the autocratic conversion of bondholders to something like common shareholders.

Ordinarily, and by law (which means what anymore?), the bondholders are first in line to get their money back when a company goes bankrupt. Any assets sold generate the money to pay back those holding the loan notes for the company.

The Obama administration said that was ridiculous, the old way of doing business. It`s time for a Change. And so they told the bondholders to go suck eggs.

Over the past week, an organization in Indiana has been in litigation before the United States Supreme Court. The essence of the case is to prevent or stop the bankruptcy to give the bondholders a chance to cry foul. They want the company and the government to follow the rule of law.

Hah! Fat chance! This is a Time for Hope and Change.

So today, Justice Ginsburg`s temporary hold on the sale to Fiat was removed. The sale may go through, as defined in the deal.

What will that mean for the future of venture capital, investment capital, and bonds in general? What about municipal or corporate bonds as "secure" investments? How about small businesses looking for equity investors?

Do you think today`s decision will be constrained only to Chrysler, or will it have far-reaching consequences to the whole concept of financial investment?

Do you think it`s fair for the government to make a law that treats bondholders one way, allow the business world to function, then simply wipe out that law without any discussion?

CraigL2009-6-10 2:35:27
By jimmack89 274 Days Ago
0 points

Well I think they willl make harde to get loan

no persoanl experince yet.
By FastVentures 274 Days Ago
0 points
I think it’s important to note that these bondholders were holders of secured debt. With that being said, I think what happened at Chrysler was an unprecedented case of governmental interference with private enterprise and a complete disregard of more than a century worth of case law.

While the government’s actions can probably be justified to some extent to have benefited the greater good and helped to avert an even bigger economical crises, there can be no doubt that Chrysler’s bondholders paid the price for the company’s inability to design, create, and market a line of viable products for decades.

Since the Chrysler bondholders were largely institutional investors such as pension funds, I’m quite curious to see what would have happened had the government applied the same scenario to GM, where bondholders largely consist of GM’s retired workforce and other individual investors. Under such a scenario, these people would have lost a huge portion of their retirement funds/lifesavings, but they can still vote!

Like I said, the way the U.S. government dealt with Chrysler and GM is without precedence and if it wouldn’t have been the U.S. government, the complete disregard of secured creditors in traditional bankruptcy proceedings is rather unthinkable. Bearing this in mind, I don’t think that these two cases have an impact on the credit markets in general.

When Daimer Benz cut its losses and sold Chrysler to Cerberus, I’m still not clear what Cerberus saw in Chrysler that Daimer Benz didn’t see. Frankly, since Fiat isn’t going to contribute any capital resources other than the ability to build small cars that don’t exactly have a great reputation in Europe (FIAT = Fix It Again Tony), I wouldn’t be surprised if Fiat Chrysler continues to be a troubled carmaker with rather slim chances to recover.
By CraigL 274 Days Ago
0 points
Some interesting follow-up seems to indicate that long-term Treasury bonds are developing higher interest rates. Presumably, that would mean that buyers are associating more risk to what will happen to their money over 30 years. Instead of assuming that the American dollar is like gold.

In Illinois, the state is supposed to pay into various pension funds. That hasn`t been done, as the money likely was used for all sorts of personal fun and games by the politicians. Now those pension funds are unfunded, and the law mandates they must be funded.

The result, much like in Caw-lee-forn`y`uh, is that Illinois is going broke. Cities and towns within the state also are going broke. And so they`ll try to issue municipal bonds. I wonder who will buy them?
By MMORPG 258 Days Ago
0 points

100% The Bondholders will get the shaft in bankruptcy. The chrysler bankruptcy became too political when it had nothing to do with politics.

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Author, freelance editor/writer, philosopher

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Here it is, 2008, I`m 56 and embarking on my next career. My name`s Craig, unrelated to "Craig`s List," and I`m a writer. I`m also a philosopher, although I didn`t know that until recently.

Initially, I was a professional musician (keyboards) for about 20 years, then did a stint in retail, worked as a temp, and landed as a computer guy for a local hospital. That lasted long enough for me to end up running IT for a subsidiary corporation involved in managed care, physician practices, and billing.

I left to get into IT consulting, hated it, and went back to temping. With my skills in MS Office, drawing, graphics, writing, and editing, I came together with Jim Jones and wrote the "A+ Exam Cram" books, all about how to pass the CompTIA A+ certification exam.

Four editions later, realizing I like getting royalties, I was decided: I’d be a writer. I have a novel I`m working on, about the next version of human beans. Then there`s a book about how to work with computer spreadsheets, and there`s this philosophy I`ve developed.

New Individualism is founded on the principle concept of idealism, mixed with Ayn Rand`s Objectivism, and what I think is true. It’s a blended structure, taking from many other of history`s philosophies, and including some new ideas.

Individualism holds that quality of life is the highest value, not an "also-ran" that creeps into consideration late at night. It`s a philosophy based on a direct connection between physical reality and a more complex system, organized, and fashionably referenced by such words as "intelligent design."

An offshoot book I`m working on ("Phone Calls with Cassie") discusses the moral and ethical problems facing today`s teens. It`s based on a composite, loosely generated around my niece Cassandra.

In the interim, while I`m putting all this writing stuff together, I do VA work, freelance writing, editing, and other content-based jobs on a contract basis. I also work with Kathy in a startup business selling personalized messages made up of Navy signal flags.

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