Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Hey guys. First I want to let everyone who is looking for web design services in on this site I found. Its called www.sitepoint.com and what you do is list your design job and it seems like hundreds of web designers will take a stab at designing something for you, then at the end of your contest, you choose the winner and pay what you promised. Its pretty cool. It costs $25 to list a project, then you determine the prize money. I listed my prize money for $225 and got 62 responses so far.

Anyway, my contest was to design a logo for my college laundry business, and it ends today, so I`d like to hear which logo you guys like the best. I`m having a hard time choosing. Here`s the link to my contest! Thanks.

http://www.sitepoint.com/marketplace/contest/1407

Hello brilie54,

Thanks for explaining the sitepoint idea...very interesting.

My votes are for:

http://www.sitepoint.com/marketplace/contestentrant/1407/167 762#entry74942 (colors need to be lighter/changed though for a more fresh/clean look)

and

http://www.sitepoint.com/marketplace/contestentrant/1407/174 246#entry74251 (This is the best one in my opinion)

Please let us know which one you chose.

Good luck.
Riham.

-------------------------

Riham El-Mograby
Tittainment
http://www.tittainment.net
Web & Software Application Development, Web & Graphic Design

I think showing an actual washing machine makes it seem more like a
laundromat, a DIY place, not a laundry service like you will have. And
quite frankly, laundry isn`t the kind of thing people like doing and a
machine is a symbol of that. I think you should eliminate the ones with
laundry machines, which is most of them.

My favorte one is the one by Winger. It is modern and iconographic,
more representative of the style of snowboard graphics and computer
icons. Therefore I think it reaches the college age crowd more than most
others. It is also very versitile making it easy to print for various
applications. And though it is based on the window of a machine, it
doesn`t say "laundry machine". So that`s my vote.


On a side note, and this goes out to everyone, I would discourage anyone
from using a site like this for design work. Though "logo contents" have
become popular, spec work is very damaging to the design industry.
Hell, any work done on speculation is bad for any industry. It is bad
practice to ask artists, web developers, etc. to do work on the chance that
they may or may not get paid. It actually hurts the talent you are trying to
support. What if someone asked you to do work (whatever it is you do)
and if they weren`t happy with the result, they wouldn`t pay?

Brillie54, I am not faulting you for doing this. Most people simply don`t
realize the implacations of artwork contents and they are advertised as
giving great opportunity. But not so. Since you`ve already started it, let`s
finish it and get back to the subject.

Which logo do you all of you like best?

-------------------------

Home Sweetest Home - Poster-Style Home Portraits
Zingerding - the Internet`s Funny Pages (coming soon!)

Steve Lowtwa

I understand the argument against these contests, but at the same time, you have to consider the nature of the industry. Web design/graphic design is a very saturated market. While there are many quality designers, there are 10x as many freelance designers with no qualifications. Instead of committing $200 with no idea what you`ll be getting, I think in the case of logo design, you need to see what you`re getting before you pay for it. This is done in many other fields. In advertising, for example, an ad agency will work countless hours to put together a proposal for a company in order to impress them and earn their business. Many times, the company will not hire the agency, even after all the work has been done. Thats just the risk you take when trying to win over a client. Considering how hard it is to sift through all the scams and unqualified designers in order to find a designer who will give you what you really want, I think these competitions can be valuable. That being said, I do understand where you`re coming from. There are arguments for both sides.

As far as the logo, Romia, I couldn`t get the links you posted to work for me. Could you tell me the name of the designer who created the logo you liked?

I don`t think that the laundry machine is a negative...in fact, if it causes people to remember how much they hate doing laundry, it will help my business, because we are offering to do it for them!

I see Steve`s point ... you had this contest for people to make you logos, and now you are getting free advice from the rest of us on which one should be used. Instead, you should have just hired a competent artist who would have designed something for you specifically anyway.

How do you know these are not borrowed from somewhere else? I could take a logo, change the name, and there ... now it`s yours.

I just choose to not participate on those "bid on my site!" sites. I need to know WAY more than people post about it anyway, and it`s a waste for me if they are just looking for price. I`d rather build a long-term relationship with a client.

So what happens when you find the logo? Do you contact that person to do your site? What if they don`t do sites, or if their sites are bad compared to their logos? I`m not an artist, but I`d imagine sometimes a new designer can match you logo to a site, and sometimes not.


-------------------------

Did it yourself but something on your website still isn`t working the way you wanted? Have no fear - That PHP Girl is here!

Look ma, I`ve gone green!!

Hello brilie54,

The ones I liked are bonojerry #1 and ewnolley #1.  I like the one you choose too Steve, more abstract.

nhgnikole, I agree about building long term relationships with clients as opposed to picking bits of work from here and there.  But, regarding having the person who created the logo do the website, I have to disagree.  There is a huge difference between a branding or graphic designer and a web designer.  It is always common to mix them up but when it comes to usability, compliance, accessability and other web standards issues, graphic designers usually fail to  compete (unless they are both web and graphic designers).

In any case, whether through contests or direct hire of designers, no one can guarrantee that the artwork is genuine or borrowed from somewhere else.. Its all a matter of reputation and trust...whether the designer is real or virtual.

Riham.


-------------------------

Riham El-Mograby
Tittainment
http://www.tittainment.net
Web & Software Application Development, Web & Graphic Design

I also want to touch on the point of the problems of developing a logo in absence of context - because I`m not an artist but I do play one on TV.

Essentially, you can run into problems. Sure the logo looks cute now ... but does it ....
* Reverse? Look as good on black as it does on white?
* Scale? Is the final product vector graphics? Will it still look good at 12` by 10` as it does at 12cm by 10 cm?
* Work in multiple places? Your web site, brochures, business cards, letterhead, envelopes, flyers, online banners, whatever?? (And if not, is your artist for hire going to come back and fix it?)

I just mention this because I work with a lot of small businesses, and some of them have a logo coming in to the project. These are common things that go wrong:
* They like a design that would accommodate a vertical logo but their logo is horizontal, or vice versa.
* The color on their logos looks good there, but if you try to expand it to an entire web site, it looks horrible. I had one with a logo that was like Seahawks colors - lime green and navy? Not good in large amounts unless you`re in the NFL. Another had kind a pink and baby blue in the logo. Where do you go from there?
* The logo looks good on a flyer, say like a few inches tall ... but on a website, it won`t shrink and compress nicely so it takes up too much real estate on the page.
* The number of colors in the logo causes the printing to be more expensive for every piece, and there`s no monotone version of the logo for quick printing.

Anyhoo, this has been a PSA from your friends at NHG Consulting.


-------------------------

Did it yourself but something on your website still isn`t working the way you wanted? Have no fear - That PHP Girl is here!

Look ma, I`ve gone green!!

Riham - A good artist should know if the logo will work across platforms, what it looks like compressed, etc in addition to the branding elements ... IMO.

-------------------------

Did it yourself but something on your website still isn`t working the way you wanted? Have no fear - That PHP Girl is here!

Look ma, I`ve gone green!!

I think brilie54 you should use the logo design guildlines provided by nhgnikole to make sure that the lucky contest winner will provide you the logo in vector graphics (file format should be EPS, AI, CDR or SWF), b&w inverted, in proper color schemes and system for printing (CMYK) etc.  (some of the contestants have already done that), etc.

nhgnikole, IMO, the logo is the cornerstone on which the company`s identity is built...as long as the logo is professionally done, it should work find on cross-platforms.  Think about logos of AT&T, IBM, HP, Apple, etc.  These logos have been created long before the notion of websites was created.  However, their logos work perfectly fine on their websites, print material, etc.  Logos are the inspiring point for whatever comes next not vice versa.


-------------------------

Riham El-Mograby
Tittainment
http://www.tittainment.net
Web & Software Application Development, Web & Graphic Design

brilie54, go with blue-rain`s washer logo. I like it, but more important you`ve asked him for so many modifications he`s earned it.  That would be pretty harsh if he went through all that work for you and you don`t choose him.

I gotta agree with what Steve said.  What`s real surprising is a site like sitepoint.com would allow the exploitation of designers and developers.  But I guess it`s the suckers who submit their work are the ones that loose. What`s worse is that client can ask questions to the designer, and ask for modifications.