Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Thanks Steve...great idea...I guess that is where I have failed is makign it really clear what I want and need. Thanks...I will work on that today!

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Leah Tucker

Lots of great points in this thread! It`s great affirmation.

I think the biggest thing I`ve found in my experience owning a
deselopment business is simply understanding business and understand
where your client is coming from, and then bridging the gap between
that, their budget, and what`s realistically possible.

The person hiring your services needs to know and receive the value from
the money they spend. "On a budget" can mean a large variety of things.
I`ve worked with clients "on a budget" of $1000 and "on a budget" but it`s
$10,000. It`s all a matter of perspective. Either way, I think the best
situation is when you can give maximum value for the the dollar that a
client spends with you.

I`ve met very few people who, after talking to them about their goals and
objectives and outlining a clear plan of action are shy about cutting a
check when they see the value. Of course, there are always people
looking to spend $100; those are not my target audience and there are
do-it-yourself solutions that match that price point (but not the quality).

As always in business, in practice it usually boils down to picking two of
three: Fast, Good, Cheap.

p.s.- I wear "Geek" with pride. There are many different kinds of "Geeks,"
from those who are outwardly ones to those who just have geek-
tendencies.   Being a geek does not exclude you from knowing other
things; I know quite a few CEOS and salespeople who are complete
gadget-geeks.

I`m a business/marketing and general tech geek, and doggone it, people
like me! :-)

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"It`s not work, it`s network!"

Portage Media Solutions
http://www.portagemedia.com
My Blog: http://www.interactivemediatips.com

Thank you to everyone who has responded to this post - those business folks who have purchase web services and those whose business is working on the web. Over the past several days I have been mulling over what was said both in and between the lines. I`m going to try and summarize:

1) Those purchasing web development/design skills value a contractor that listens and can demonstrate tangible ROI (whether that`s because they`re cheap OR can effectively communicate and justify a larger bill)
2) Portfolios and experience are good demonstrations of ability, but are secondary to items like cost
3) It is important for a web services provider to be open, upfront, and honest about what their strength are - whether that`s design, development, education, etc.
4) Nobody likes to feel like their business is cookie cutter. If selling template solutions one must be careful in marketing the service.
5) To best serve customers web service providers should know something about their customer`s business. Providing what`s cool or trendy for a developer (RSS) or Designers (badges, mirrored reflections) doesn`t help increase sales.

As some inferred in the early posts I am an online business consultant. I help small business get started online and/or increase their site`s effectiveness with measurable results. Being new to the StartUp Nation crew I wanted to take an approach that I take with my clients - instead of posting with a megaphone I wanted to just listen. I`m very happy to hear that is a good approach to take. :)

As for the Geek thing - I`ve done `tours of duty` with both IBM and Microsoft. I`m president of a coding club and frequent blogger on software development. Despite going back to school to get an MBA with emphasis in emerging technology business I still wear the Geek label as a badge with pride. :D

Thanks again to everyone who took the time to comment. I`m glad to be here and am looking forward to participating with this community.


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Creative Principal - Vox Pop Design http://voxpopdesign.com (801) 953-3805

A good web designer gives you exactly what you want!

What I hate the most, is designers who rip people off. Especially, when they use a template. I called a local designer, and he wanted upwards of $3500 to design a site using a template.

I have to agree with digitalvision 313. It really is all about a budget and what you can do within that budget.

I tend to charge on the cheap, because as a firefighter, I know what it means to work hard for a buck. So I find it hard to sit behind a computer and charge $60 an hour, when I bust my hump for $8.50 (salary broke into hours).

Honesty, creativity, and the ability to work with clients to bring their vision to life, without breaking your bank.

That`s what`s important to look for.



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HYBRID Digital Media
"Providing High Quality Design Solutions"
http://www.hybriddigitalmedia.com

As a sole proprietor who has been designing sites for 9+ years and has been self-employed full-time for the last couple of years, who also ran a BBS (bulletin board service) before that where I had to design pages in ASCII text (so I`ve been around for a while), I would like to add my $.02 here. :-)

1. Longevity. How long as the designer been in business? Have they been doing business for a while? I have had to rescue way too many sites because the person who was originally hired moved on, got out of business, put the domain registration in their name (that one`s a nightmare) and left town, and many other reasons. Make sure the designer has been there for a while and has some roots, so you know where to find them when you need them!

2. Professionalism. It takes experience and constant high-speed learning to keep up with all the trends and changes in web design, but a pro designer will do so to the best of their ability. Did they code the site themselves or have someone else do it? Can they hand-code a site (I find this crucial, yet so many who bill themselves as professionals don`t know how to hand code!)? Does it meet current standards (I have to fix way too many sites that are "pretty" done by graphic designers who think they know web design, but whose sites don`t meet even the most basic standards)? Can it be viewed through multiple browsers and still look much the same? Do they have a proper billing system (Quickbooks or similar is not that difficult to learn) and keep good records? Do they keep you informed, answer your emails quickly or return phone calls within a reasonable period of time (I`ve tested hosting companies this way--when you have a problem, you want to be able to reach your designer!)? I happen to work from home, but I`ve been in this same area for over 10 years now and people know where to reach me, plus I`ve worked with a number of businesses long distance, and they, too, know where they can always reach me.

3. Knowledgeable. Much like above, web design requires constant learning. If your web designer isn`t knowledgeable, they may leave you stuck with technology that doesn`t work for a large number of users or for your business. Your designer should also be versed in the requirements and ethical considerations that impact your profession and acceptable ways to present your business on the web. They should also be aware of and knowledgeable in search engine and other online marketing strategies that will help your business to grow.

4. Accessibility. A common mistake of amateur designers is to assume that accessibility isn`t important. Web sites that will not display correctly—and sometimes won`t display at all—unless browser compatibility is addressed. This means testing and viewing your site in multiple browsers to make sure that the visual differences as one views the site in each browser are minor and negligible. Amateurs often ignore users such as the visually impaired, yet search engine robots are in the class of users who are visually impaired.

5. What tools does the designer use? If they use always use “frames” or can only use a point-and-click tool like Front Page and don’t know how to hand-code a page, RUN AWAY FAST. None of the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) design editors are failsafe—hand-coding is always a necessity in every site I`ve worked on, and the ability to hand-code an entire site lets you know that the designer is serious about their business. Tools such as WYSIWYG editors can be used to help speed up the coding of a site, saving time and money for the client, but someone who cannot code without using these tools does not know  enough to design an effective site.

6. Graphics. On the web looks can matter, but just as important is that images and thus your site load quickly. Good graphical packages cost money the amateur hobbyist usually isn`t willing to spend and isn`t trained to use. Have you checked the graphics in different browsers and at different resolutions? Are you using the images legally, making sure you have permission from the copyright holder if necessary? A professional designer will insist on this, saving you from possible future embarrassing and expensive legal issues--Ive had to work with customers on some of these, when a previous designer had "swiped" images from other sites and the original owners of the images came after the "swiper" legally--I was called in to replace them. A copyright violation could result in your hosting provider taking down your site as well as unforeseen legal costs. Images are fine-tuned for web use to have the smallest possible file size and still look good, so that pages load fast even at 28.8 (and there are a LOT of folks who still can`t get anything more than that!).

7. Site Architecture. Just as you would not want an amateur to build your house, leaving you with leaning walls and a house with a weak foundation, so, too you want a site with a good infrastructure. Web amateurs are usually uninformed about the infrastructure requirements necessary to create a sound, robust site. Poorly implemented site architecture can allow information downloads you didn’t intend or limit the way your site can grow in the future. Security is an important consideration here as well; amateurs are rarely versed in web security.

8. Can the designer be trusted? Are there measures in place to back-up your data, protect your confidential information, or maintain your visitors` privacy? How do you explain to your client that their confidential information was swiped off your web designer’s computer as a college prank? How can you expect potential clients to take your business seriously if you don’t take it seriously enough to use a professional designer?

9. Price. There is a wildly varying difference in what is the best price to pay for a website. An amateur may charge less, but you’ll see it reflected in your site. If you are serious about your web site’s success then your choice should not be based on price alone. You should also compare professionals: If you find one designer charging $500 and the other is charging $1,000, find out why there is such a big price difference. Ask each of them how they determined their price and what you are getting for your money. A lot of companies will offer incredibly low prices for a website but often there is a catch, like having to use their Hosting Server for a year or more, or they are pumping out template style sites where only the main images change from one site to another, or they are coding the site using the kind of tools mentioned earlier and do not know how to hand-code. There are lots of reasons for lower cost, some of them good, some of them not so good. I will typically put together a 5-10 page basic site for $300-400; depending on the complexity of it and just how many images are involved (and whether I have to scan them or not), prices may be higher. For those looking for lower pricing, keep in mind the investment that the good designer must have in software and computer equipment.. especially if they keep it updated, as most of us need to in order to keep up with web trends.

10. Compatibility. Make sure your web designer is compatible with your style and personality, and that they have the tools to do what you want done. You will be working with this person closely for anywhere from a month to several months. True professionals are easier to work with due to their professionalism—a professional is far less likely to balk at a request, and they listen to your suggestions and implement those that will work for you. Theyw ill also take the time to explain why they recommend as they do, and what might work against you if you implement it. Good designers LISTEN above all else, because in the end, the client is the boss. I`ve personally learned a lot from my customers, and they also learn from me, information we both pass along to others  building both businesses in the process.

11. Referrals. Probably 90% of my business comes from referrals. Talk to those who have had websites done by anyone you are considering using, and ask about their experiences with this person. Have they been timely? Have they communicated well? Have they "nickel and dimed" the customer for all sorts of "extras"? In other words, research the designer or firm you`re considering for their track record.

I think that covers most aspects...  :-)

I would disagree with that comment from a literal viewpoint.  What the client often wants. or thinks they want, is not always what will serve their business or organization best.  A responsible, professional designer will provide a client with options that may be much more effective than what a client actually thinks they need or desire. In many design project cases I`ve had to create exactly what a client thinks they want in order to show them why it will not work successfully.

- J.





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Jeff Fisher | Jeff Fisher LogoMotives | Tweet! Tweet!

Robentcorp, I learned from working with the troops in Iraq that ... especially as a new-comer ... to sit down and observe, think carefully about what you are going to say ... and choose your words carefully.

Warriors are great ... but a true warrior knows which battles to pick, and when and where to fight those battles.

SuN is NOT a battlefield.

It is a community of folks ... all trying to figure out how best to go about "getting what they want". I, for one, am a firm beleiver "that I can have everything in life I want ... provided I help enough others get what they want."

After over 6 months here at SuN, aside from a few, I`m confident that most of the members subscribe to that same philosophy..

Lively discussion is terrific. Its engaging, thought provoking ... and encourages folks to "think outside the box". But when it turns into "FLAMING" someone ... then sir, it is demeaning, insulting, rude ... and down right IGNORANT.

And I`m confident to say that I don`t think you meant to be any of those 4 descriptions, especially ignorant.

I encourage you to step back (away from the keyboard) and re-read each of your posts here at SuN.

How would you rate yourself, if you were a first-time reader here at SuN? (No response is needed to this question.)

Remember the definition of CHARACTER ... doing whats right, even when no one is watching.

 

 

 

 

I agree.

^5 to TJG. (^5 = Geek for a High Five...)

When it takes me weeks, it`s usually a combination of several factors...

First, I`m exceptionally busy, which I let the client know. This is the case right now, when it seems like everyone has suddenly decided that their website needs changing, redesign, a new site needs to be done, two have needed a rescue from a missing web designer, and more.

Second, the client is slow in getting materials to me:  I`m waiting on their images, on them putting together content (or enough information for me to write it for them) and other factors.

Third, the site is not a simple site and requires custom scripting, or it`s an extensive site that needs many pages created, or it`s an e-commerce site that needs testing and retesting to make sure everything is in place properly before it`s launched. In one case a client wanted their site hosted on GoDaddy and wanted a GoDaddy high-assurance secure certificate. It took ages to get that through because the client was never at their desk to pick up the phone--part of GoDaddy`s process for authenticating a business.

These some of the most common reasons, other things do come into play occasionally, like personal issues that need to be addressed, either my own or the client`s. Most often, though, it hinges on the client.

My clients really *want* to deal with me, and they are willing to wait in most cases if I`m really busy, unless for some reason the site is really time-sensitive, like the launch of a book or a CD. Time-sensitive sites I`ll push ahead if possible and if the client is a particularly good one (i.e., pays bills on time, is generally pleasant to work with), but it`s not always possible.

With regard to website quality, I highly recommend using the validator at http://validator.w3.org/. It`s not always possible to get every site to validate perfectly, but one should make every attempt to do as much as possible. Flash usually throws me a bunch of errors when using this validator, but I generally don`t put *really important* stuff in Flash for that reason. If you can get the site to pass validation, then it should display in multilpe browsers properly.

We are all learning, each one filling a niche that`s needed in their own particular way, and doing the best they know how. No one is perfect--there`s just too much to learn--but I`m sure all you web designers here are striving to do the best possible job for those who come to you for your expertise. Web design is still such a new field, and there are so many ways of doing things, that this is all any of us can do. I still cringe at sites I did a couple of years ago because my knowledge has increased so much since then, and in a couple more years I`ll probably br cringing at sites I do today.. same reason. But at least I`m improving all the time, and that`s all anyone can really ask.

tonerdesign,

what a great expression of your thoughts and clear demonstration of "cool" in the face of some edgy posts here.

that even keel is a great quality - especially for an entrepreneur. after all, things are tough out there and you`ve got to navigate stormy stuff sometimes.

kudos!

rich

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Rich Sloan , Co-Founder, Chief Startupologist, StartupNation