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YvetteMarie

posts: 33

Mar 19, 2007 2:25 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I was wondering.. how far do copyright issues go?

I was talking to my son about how he could make money doing what he loved.. (( Hes 11, but Im planting the entrepreneur seed early )) and he was talking about how he would love to have a smoothie shop.  I told him that he would need to work out what would make it cool and different... he loves 80s music and was thinking that it would be fun to name the smoothies after 80s songs.

Maneater,  Everybody wants to rule the world, etc... he had a whole list and its a cute idea.. but I wondered.. would that be copyright infringement?  What about playing 80s music in a store.. are there fees to be paid for that as well?  This is by no means anything that will come to fruition now.. we were just wondering.

Thanks!

Yvette

 

 



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Going slow is for weenies!
YvetteMarie

posts: 33

Mar 19, 2007 2:29 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Oops..and wanted to edit it to add.. He wanted to name it... "Whip it!" and teh tagline to be.. we whip it good.. and wear a devo hat... LOL

infringement?



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Going slow is for weenies!
Engraver

posts: 178

Mar 19, 2007 6:56 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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This is a good question. When I lived in Texas there was a sub shop I used to go to all the time that had their sanwiches named after actors (The John Wayne,  Larry Curly Moe, etc. I always wondered if they were infringing on the names because I knew they weren`t paying royalties for the use since they were a small mom and pop business.

CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 19, 2007 10:35 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I don`t think there`s a copyright issue for just the song title. After all, suppose I say I have a song but I don`t. Then suppose I title it "Billy Ran the Numbers." So what?

Based on posts by PatentandTrademark, I could maybe trademark the phrase, if I were going to assign it some sort of business....I think (you`d have to ask him). But to "say" it`s a song title without there being an actual song, doesn`t make any sense.

When someone copyrights a song, they`re first taking credit for the arrangement of the notes, the lyrics, and the overall composition. The song title is part of that, as a book title is for a book. As such, I think if you were to only use the song title, but not the lyrics or the music, it probably wouldn`t be an issue.

I`m not a lawyer, but that`s my thinking on the basis of logic. If I`m not mistaken, someone can use up to 16 bars of an existing song without running into trouble. That`s if they`re exactly the same notes. Beyond that, there`s a plagiarism case.

Interesting question, though. :-)
greenland

posts: 6

Mar 20, 2007 10:15 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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There are fees to be paid for playing the music in your establishment. If you just use a radio station, the fees are already covered by the radio station. Otherwise playing the music would be considered a performance and the music industry would like you to register with a Performance Rights organization like ASCAP or BMI where they would somehow monitor what you play and charge for roylaties accordingly. I`d bet there is an intermediate music distributer who would sell blanket licensed compilations (even customizable) for a set price just for store owners and such - Like what you hear in drug stores, etc. I suppose the 80`s channel on your digital cable music selection would work as well. The royalties should already be wrapped up in your cable fee.

Although I don`t know how you would get caught if you just played the music without reporting performance. I know there a re plenty of DJ`s out there who are playing music without paying royalties.  

greenland2007-3-20 11:21:16


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iouone2

posts: 1185

Mar 20, 2007 10:19 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I am certain there`s no issue here. That also goes for the "whip it good" and costume design part. It would be too hard to prove the success of the shop was due to the `parody` of the music industry.

As for CraigL comment about 16  bars... that`s only part true. It all comes down to proving the
success of the second song using the 16 bars is strictly due to the 16 bars usage or if there are other elements taking place which provides the success.

For example, if my hit tune uses 16 bars of a previously created `super hit` and reaches fame itself, then the original artist could take me to court for copyright infringement. That doesn`t mean they will win. While in court they would have to prove that the only reason my song was successful was because of the 16 bars I used from their song. That would be very hard to prove, but no one wants to go through that... So once you reach that level of `income` or attention, it`s much easier to settle out of court and give the original artist a cut. Then everyone`s happy. After all, the lawsuit likely didn`t start because one artist was mad at another for using it. It typically comes down to getting paid.

(It`s been a little while, but I did take a couple of copyright law classes, but that makes me no expert. I am not a lawyer, and laws do change... but during class, this is one of the issues we concentrated on because Rap music was doing exactly this...)

All in all, I don`t think you`re going to have any trouble... and hey... if you do, think of the press release you could write about the situation. This would get you so much additional attention, that you might be happy to `share` a little of the income with a lawyer. After all, they won`t take it all... they just want a little.


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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words
ElidS

posts: 471

Mar 20, 2007 3:55 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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"he loves 80s music and was thinking that it would be fun to name the smoothies after 80s songs"

As far as naming his products, this is from the horse`s mouth

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?

Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

  • Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents

as for the
" What about playing 80s music in a store.. are there fees to be paid for that as well?"

From the BBB they have a pretty good page there but limiting ourselves to the fee sections

WHY DO I HAVE TO PAY ROYALTIES?
The short answer to the question above is: Because the law says you do. But, clearly, some further explanation is needed as to why, for example, a merchant has to pay to play radio music in his or her store, when playing the radio or listening to tapes at home or in one’s car is "free."

... A list of places and events at which licensing could be required includes, but is not necessarily limited to: restaurants, bars, clubs and hotels where live or recorded music is played...

WHAT HAPPENS IF I DON’T GET A LICENSE?
The cost of performing copyrighted musical works without a license can be far greater than the cost of the license. Failure to obtain a license to perform publicly copyrighted music is copyright infringement under the copyright law. The copyright infringer is subject to a civil suit in federal court. Sanctions against an infringer can include an injunction and the copyright owner’s actual damages, as well as the infringer’s profits, or “statutory damages” of up to $30,000 for each copyrighted song performed without a license (up to $150,000 if the infringement is willful). The infringer can also be required to pay the copyright owners’ legal fees. The law further provides for criminal sanctions against those who willfully infringe on a copyright for commercial advantage or private gain.

So, think that it may be a bad idea to not pay the fees.

CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 21, 2007 2:53 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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There was a club in Peoria, when I lived there. They had a jukebox, and one afternoon some fella from ASCAP wandered in. He took a look at the titles on the jukebox, made a note, and also logged the name of the club.

Shortly thereafter, the club owners got a notice of back royalty payments due. If they didn`t pay up, they`d have been sued, and possibly shut down as far as the jukebox. Turns out they hadn`t registered the song titles at all, and just loaded up the jukebox, playing whatever anyone felt like playing.

There`s no immediate way for ASCAP or BMI to monitor every single source of music playing around the world. However, there are lots of people who work for those organizations, wandering around doing sort of casual spot-checks, like the guy above.

Rule of thumb: If you`re going to get money as a result of playing some music in front of an audience, you`re probably going to have to pay royalties. If you`re just playing the music for plain ol` fun, you`re likely okay to just play it.
CraigL2007-3-21 3:54:22
YvetteMarie

posts: 33

Mar 21, 2007 10:09 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Ive heard the same for using music on my slideshows for my photography business.  Its a nono.  I wondered though about having the client bring their favorite music from home to play while we shoot.. for seniors, to feel more comfortable?

Thanks for the tips guys.  If this smoothie shoppe ever comes to fruition, we will play the radio station! ;c)

and Whip It! is a great name, and not copyright protected so... WOOT! ;c)

Yvette 

 



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Going slow is for weenies!
iouone2

posts: 1185

Mar 21, 2007 10:23 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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YvetteMarie... I don`t mean to bring this post off topic, but I have an idea you may want to speak to a lawyer about. I vaguely remember a situation where I could rightfully own (by purchasing a legal copy) a music  CD and copy this to a cassette for my own purposes and use. Not for financial gain or to share with others... Could it be possible to ask your customers to provide their own legal copy of music and you could apply it to their video for them? Of course they are using it for their personal enjoyment, and you are not being paid for adding it to the production. You are being paid for the production, its self. Adding the music is just a favor you are doing. 

Just a thought. Like I said, you should talk to a copyright lawyer first to be sure.


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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words
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