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THE CONSCIENCE OF AMERICAN BUSINESS IN NATIONAL SECURITY

 
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CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 26, 2009 1:32 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Chris,
I think you`re maybe taking this the wrong way. There isn`t some "national morality" that`s specified and listed, written in a book somewhere. Rather, it`s that there used to be a general consensus of what everyone considered to be "good" and "bad" ways to act.

It`s that consensus that`s gone. Not that we need some cut-and-dried manifesto of moral rules.

Another way of putting it is that we`ve lost "common sense." There`s no book, or other document that specifically defines common sense. And yet, most thinking people would agree that there`s less of it today than there was 30 years ago.

It`s true that generally speaking, as a culture, we`ve become vastly more superficial and shallow than at previous times in history. But that, too, is cyclical. It`s also true that actions speak louder than words, and today, "good intentions" and "remorse" seem to be valued more highly than actual results.
CraigL2009-3-26 2:34:50
mfackrell

posts: 227

Mar 26, 2009 8:15 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I agree with craig.
 
We as a society have lost our "COMMON SENSE".
TigerTaco

posts: 337

Mar 26, 2009 8:37 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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That I am ... pushing the pendulum to the far side so we can establish what we`ve really had and lost in the middle; for in the middle is where we can use terms like general consensus and most people, good/common sense, and other concepts which carry the weight of "duh" and not some moral authority or divine right specifically assigned to one nation or people.

If we can begin with here and now, forget the past and specifics of what`s gotten us to this point, then we can truly examine the social context of what`s "good and just" about our world as we work towards the future ... true we have some historical context, but most people don`t hold on to the past and can only "grok" that which feeds/bites them today.

New moralities and values should not be judged "bad" for it prevents the critical evaluation of just why they exist; if you can`t see the reality then you can not grasp the forces driving the change and therefore you will be unable to tilt/mold/direct the evolution of thought ... at the points of change there is much flux and organic growth is pell-mell (?) so someone with a plan can create massive shifts just by identifying, focusing on the points of benefit, and communication of the "duh logic" ... change/identity is only real on an individual level.

History is filled with examples of people who have seized "popular sediment" and changed the world, two obvious ones are Martin Luther and Adolph Hitler (ours will be someone who has the ability to use both the written word and broadcast media) and they did that by tapping into those things in someone going "something isn`t right in my world" and giving them a new "rule" to live their lives by as they worked towards a better future ... not nailing them to the past.

Bringing it back to "conscience of American Business" in "National Security" ... aside from the fact of nothing besides a thinking being being able to have a conscience, or how national security is now wrapped in "homeland security" and preemptive force in foreign countries ... is it the right question to ask, can it be answered, and to what means are we to leverage this answer.
 
From my point of view it breaks down from the "politics" of the leading by example; when the past VP ran (and runs again?) a corporation that did business with Iran, profits from war and does just about everything Eisenhower (and others) warned about being the dark clouds in our future, then all else becomes moot ... but more importantly, it sets the stage for all the other companies going, "cool, let`s go make some money".
 
War is serious business, and while mercenaries have always played a role, they have never been glorified or able to profit, or direct the national interests like they do today; in our case here in the US it`s wrapped in all the glory of a marketplace marketing campaign (insert etc. spiel).
 
My bottom-line is that we as a people should not profit from some things, that means companies should not be allowed to run/drive some things in this country ... it is that simple.  By setting up some real "for the people by the people" things we can show that when it comes to certain basic elements of people/country it is not "buyer beware" or profit at any cost, but "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" (insert marching song here LOL).


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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom
TigerTaco

posts: 337

Mar 26, 2009 12:43 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I had to give this link to a wonderful YouTube video one of our fellow American Inventors just sent me ... it`s a little over six minutes and goes a little wacky at points, but boy oh boy does it really kick the embers into a roaring flame! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom
CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 26, 2009 2:26 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Excellent video! And professionally well-done, too. Thanks for the link. :-)

My only argument with the "middle ground" comment above is that I say it`s impossible to do something now without taking into account the causes.

You can walk into a doctor`s office ONE time with a broken arm, and the doctor will splint and cast it without needing a reason for the break. Other than general curiosity.

But if you walk into that doctor`s office five or six times with a broken arm, then you`re going to have to explain your actions and what`s causing the repeated breakage.

So too, we DO need to understand the causes of today`s economy because it repeats. The so-called "pump and dump" actions of the internationally wealthy; Keynesian economic theory; academic agendas; all are part of that problem.

We can`t put back the middle class or the middle ground by fiat. We can`t wave a legal wand and make it so.

Capitalism is the best system humanity has so-far invented, but it`s being blamed for what`s been going on. Without understanding the true causes, we`ll just throw out capitalism entirely. And then what?
TigerTaco

posts: 337

Mar 26, 2009 3:28 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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If the point of view is that of the doctor, and the patient is somewhat crazy and shifty about just what is going on with the broken arms, it`s going to be an impossible task to affix the cause(s) ... and in this example at least the patient is sane enough (or suffering enough) to seek a fix.

But how about the person with the broken bones who continues to say it`s perfectly fine, or the one who just blames someone else, or the one who says the breaks come as an acceptable cost to the benefits rendered to the greater whole ... better to lope it off than continue to "waste time" on fixing that which is ultimately unfixable or not considered an issue.

ala: How`s that capitalism working for you?  I`ll answer (as it`s easier to put the words into "your" mouth that I want back out LOL) it`s great and I just need this one last cast and we`ll be perfect (or at least better than everyone else) ... it`s the greatest system for what?  China is going to put people on the moon so space travel isn`t it; China is going to own us outright so economic might it isn`t (and they are smoking us in Africa and soon South America) ... peace? (yeah we got that)  Fair economic distribution?  Freedom (ah, how many do we have in prison)? etc.

... basically I can`t believe I got sucked into this argyle-bargyle about "what makes America Great and wonderful" and what`s ailing us as of "late" ... this is the kind of thing "we" need to have out over alcohol (did we really outlaw that less than 100 years ago?) and good thick steaks (any one up for some mad cow; ah, that`s caused by grinding up and feeding cows to cows; and this is cool to who ... profit at any cost ... and we`ve know for years why cannibals are crazy).

I guess I yearn for that one china-man who stood in front of the tanks ... only in this case we can`t find the tanks ... we`re all thinking this is okay and the arm will set as it has before ... we know we need to "buy a gun" (yeah good luck with that; have you seen what your average police cruiser has inside) and put an end to "this" and stop bending over saying this is okay and for the best, or rather better than the alternatives.

I`m rambling (duh) ... just a simple taco maker who`s trying to find his way to Galt`s Gulch (not that they`ll have me either!~)



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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom
CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 26, 2009 8:36 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Y`know, that`s actually what`s going to get us "out of this." As you say, it`s cyclical. But it`s that one guy in China, standing in front of the tanks.

Mark Levine had a great comment, the other day. The first thing is to stop asking what "we" can do about all this. Ask instead, what can "I" do about this.

Each of us living our own lives makes up the overall nation. Each of us has contributed our part to the particular mess. Each of us has chosen to spend more than we make, live on debt, and let someone else handle politics.

So now, each of us will have to fix our own life.

When all (or a whole lot) of us have done so, then presto-chango, we`ll discover that "the country" has been fixed.

That means a whole lot of people are going to first have to stop looking at "the government" or "them" to fix things.
TigerTaco

posts: 337

Mar 27, 2009 8:32 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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HERE HERE!  Watch my dust (LOL) ... one soul at a time, but I do believe in "magic" and I know that these kinds of things can spark and really if you think about it "we" don`t need all on board but the more the merrier ... maybe a "promise keepers" for America kind of thing.
 
I`ve been kind of flippantly grinding on this and wondering if there isn`t some basic "conscience" or "common sense" statements for the kinds of businesses and people here in the SuN (again nothing is ever 100%) ... e.g., 1) Do No Evil, 2) Do No Businesses With Them That Do Evil ... might make for an interesting thread (Not sure my standard "Have Fun" is apropos for serious minds, but all work and no play makes Jack an evil little bastard)


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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom
CraigL

posts: 9051

Mar 29, 2009 1:28 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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And that`s my point----common view, common values, and common moral rules. Right now, generally speaking, we have two fundamental viewpoints in America about how life and reality operate.

Those two viewpoints generate morals, values, ethics, beliefs, votes, actions, intentions, and so on. And they`re diametrically opposed.
TigerTaco

posts: 337

Mar 29, 2009 5:44 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Is "man" inherently good or evil?
 
Does "man" make decisions which are not in his/her best interests?
 
I put forward that the conflict is artificial and only in the confines of society and the trade-offs, opportunity costs, and compromises which are required by the greater whole ... and what we see today is the result of disproportanate (sp) "force" allowed by "a few" operating in their self-interest (no tin-foil hat required to look at our laws today vs. 100 years ago).


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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom
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