Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Am I missing the point here, or this thread getting out of hand. The
discussion has completely moved away from Dale`s main point and is
focussing on whether the sales guy lied.

From my perspective the guy didn`t lie, he didn`t try to sell Dale anything.
What he did do is point out there was a great deal going and Dale quite
rightly decided he wanted to take advantage of it. Either way this is all
missing the point which is "if you want to combine sales success with great
customer service it`s important to focus on the customer perspective and not
the vendors."

In my experience the top performing sales guys always guide the customer
to a buying decision - not force it down his throat and hope he swallows

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Saxmansteve,
The discussion`s main point is that persuasion is different from selling. Neither term is defined in any way, simply presented in story form---anecdotal examples. That leaves the words themselves wide open for random interpretation.

The hinge-point for a supposed "analysis" of the two words rests on a story about a sales person and that person`s methodology. In the course of that example, the discussion introduces many additional terms, also none of which are defined.

So yes,  you`re missing the point, and no, the discussion isn`t out of hand. As Kathy quoted, there`s a sucker born every minute. In this instance, anyone who believes the face-value of the entire topic is naive. Additionally, if you remove the actions of the storied sales person, the entire topic becomes meaningless.

Therefore, the sales person and his tactics are the only area where any sort of discussion can apply.

Lying to a customer is a sign of disrespect. Even if you engage in relativism, i.e. the lie was just about a pair of boots, the larger point is still valid.

Proposing dishonest tactics like "I`m not going to sell you something" to get someone to drop their guard is to engage in manipulation. Why bother? Instead of lying, tell the customer that it`s your job to sell them boots and to make sure they`re absolutely happy.

This would be more attention getting, and even if it didn`t result in an immediate sale, the customer is far more likely to come back if treated with respect. Then you might actually get a customer to buy several pairs of boots over the long term. Effective sales is all about trust. Period. Ask any top performing salesman.

Ya know; I`m not going to comment on the whole lying aspect. But I will say  it wasn`t the best way for Dale to illustrate his post .... and thats all I`m going to say about that.

That aside - Dale, this was an excellent post. First off: there is a reason why more people are calling it `persuasion architecture` and moving away from the term `information architecture`. You can`t push people with internet marketing - you have to pull them.

Second of all; buying is indeed an emotional act. To Quote Brian Eisenberg from FutureNow "People buy based on feelings, but use logic to rationalize a purchase" (okay, not an exact quote, but pretty close to what I remember him saying). When people don`t feel any emotional connection, when your copy doesn`t inspire an ascent in maslow`s hierarchy, they will tend to feel `undecided`.  That being said, you do want to get personal. Google adwords landing page algorithm looks for sites that use action verbs accompanied by words such as `you` and give them an SEO boost. Also, pictures can play a big part in making your selling point more personal.









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Best Regards,

Victor Wise

Your discussion of "Persuasion Architecture" is interesting except a "Persuasion Architecture" is Push Marketing. Pull Marketing is generating demand by providing excellent value for money, clear communication of value, and certainly NO LIES.

Decades of lying to customers = why marketing is so difficult these days. This thread started with a proposal that included the idea that someone said it`s acceptable to lie to customers ... that a lie could be used to get someone to drop their guard. What is the adjective that describes this behavior?

How about Predatory?

As I said, I`m not going to comment any more on the lying aspect beyond what I already have.

CookieMonster, I think you have misunderstood my last post. Persuasion architecture is not a synonym, nor an antonym, for pull-based marketing. Indeed, persuasion architecture can either be pull-based, or push based - but it defines neither.

I think Seth Godin described the definition of pull-based marketing in one of his video`s (if memory serves). An example of pull based marketing is if I typed in `Timberland Boots` on google; saw an ad on the right hand side saying `buy Timberland Boots`, and then clicked on it to arrive to a landing page with a bold headline saying `buy timberland boots`.

The key concept here is that I was already interested in timberland boots - so their advertisement was relevant. This is pull based marketing.

Push based marketing would be if you saw a commercial on TV advertising `Timberland Boots` for sale at shoe city. You weren`t interested in the least in any boots. Well, not as interested as someone typing in `Timberland Boots` on google. Understandably, pull based marketing is more effective than push based.
Other examples of push based marketing are SPAM and most banner ads.

So in essence, persuasion architecture can accomplish both pull-based and push-based marketing simultaneously

Well, thats at least my take on the matter.

For further reading on the matter, I recommend picking up a copy of the book `Waiting for your Cat to Bark`. Written by the people that coined the phrase "persuasion architecture".


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Best Regards,

Victor Wise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs

Okay, you are right. Deception is bad for business.

Victor

PS: Anyone know how I can embed video`s on these forums - opposed to listing the URL????


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Best Regards,

Victor Wise