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Really now, where does an early stage go?

 
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ddutton

posts: 20

Aug 12, 2008 11:20 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Ok, pay for pitching, pay for valuations, pay for Angel Forums, pay for forum to get listed on the German Stock Exchange, pay, pay, pay and drown.
 
Now really, where does an early stage go for actual yes/no answers? Bootstrapping works for just so long before the boots fall off?
 
We built the company, the product, on the market, some sales, valuation of $7.2 million after funding, yet no investors month after month of effort -
 
I tell you when we make this company the success it will be I will not turn my back on entrepreneurs!
robertj

posts: 1458

Aug 13, 2008 11:07 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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ddutton,

I can certainly relate to your frustration.

I`m curious - did you get listed on the German Exchange?

 



-------------------------

Business Growth Masters, LLC -
Capital Catalysts for Entrepreneurs
Home of the Scalable Business Plan and QuikStart Capital Programs
http://www.bizgrowthmasters.com
info@bizgrowthmasters.com


ddutton

posts: 20

Aug 13, 2008 5:55 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Hi Robertj,
 
No, we have an opportunity to pitch at a forum that has only 15 participating companies and the forum has a 54% c onversion rate of companies presenting.  They are presented to a panel of 9 investor types who will decide who will be established on the German Stock Exchange - so, $1,000 fee (which isn`t bad) and maybe you will be one of the companies selected and then a 3 month process to get on the exchange and be a publicly traded company in Germany.
 
I haven`t said yes yet, they have 4 slots left for the September Forum- I am so confused at this point and have been bounced around by so many potential investors and brokers over the last almost 2 years now, I can`t tell you -
 
I just know that I believe in our company and our products and our future - somehow we will find a way to succeed with the funding or without -
FastVentures

posts: 306

Aug 14, 2008 11:20 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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German Exchange??? You’ve got to be kidding!

If you think you’ll have a shot to get listed on the German Stock Exchange (Deutsche Boerse in Frankfurt ) or even the “Neuer Markt”, why don’t go you public here in the U.S. or get listed on the NASDAQ?

The answer is simple. Because it’s not that easy!

The German equivalent to a C-Corporation is what’s called an AG or Aktiengesellschaft, which requires a minimum of EUR 50,000 in committed capital. That’s the money you’ll need to get started. If you pursue a listing on the Neuer Markt you can do this as a GmbH (Gesellschaft mit beschraenkter Haftung), which still requires EUR 25,000 in committed capital.

In addition to that there are registration fees, fees for audits, etc.

Now, there are ways to get listed as a foreign company because Germany and the United States ratified an agreement (I think it’s called the Deutsche Schiffahrts und Freundschafts Vertrag), which recognizes among a few other things each other’s organizational structures.

So, in theory you can do business in Germany as a C-Corp. You can even get listed in what’s called the Handelsregister (official registry of companies).

But does it work? Yes, it does. Example? McDonald’s Inc.!

Will it work for you? Not very likely!

First, let’s start with the obvious. If you have a hard time making sense of some of the German terminology I used in this post, you have seen nothing yet. The Germans have a reputation of being zealous adopters of tightly-knitted rules and regulations, so you will spend a fortune on German lawyers and accountants before you even get listed.

For the sake of this post, let’s assume that you clear all these obstacles and eventually get listed on the “Neuer Markt”, it doesn’t mean that you will ever raise a single dime. Let’s face it. As a development stage company – with no operations, let alone tangible assets in Germany – you represent everything but a quality investment in the eyes of German investors. So, why do you think they’ll invest?

Finally, did, who ever you’re talking to, tell you that if your share price drops below a certain minimum level over an average of 120 days, your listing will be dropped?

This capital market strategy deserves high marks in the creativity department – but that’s it.

I hope this helps.


Mark





-------------------------


Jackson Steiner
http://www.JacksonSteiner.com

Advanced Document Design for entrepreneurs, intermediaries, and the financial services industry.
http://www.Publications.FastVentures.com
FastVentures

posts: 306

Aug 14, 2008 2:29 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Ddutton and all the others that are seeking funding for their entrepreneurial endeavors please be advised that there’s no shortcut to early-stage investors!

What doesn’t work:

Investor Sites/Investor Unions
First, let’s get started with these so-called investor circles, unions, etc. or sites that are promising you to get you in front of investors. Well, most of them will work – just not for you. The reason for that is simple. Most of the people who operate these sites really don’t have the business acumen and experience to put together a portfolio of quality investment opportunities that investors might be interested in. And even if they do, having to decline those that are not up to par would essentially mean they would have to decline about 60%-70% of the applicants or 60%-70% of their business! Since most of them are not licensed/registered as broker-dealers, they can’t operate on a contingency fee basis – meaning the only way for them to make money is letting anybody in who’s willing to pay their subscription fee.

In addition, let’s employ some common sense. Check out the traffic stats for some of these sites on http://www.alexa.com. Would you be surprised that some of them have a traffic rank that is probably below the one of your site? So, if they claim that hundreds or thousands of qualified investors screen investment opportunities that are posted on their site, I’m wondering how they do that, given that they have an average traffic rank that is hovering around 1,000,000 with an average page view/visit of 3 and below? Come on!

Phony Investors/Advisors
Ok, let’s employ some common sense here. Most reputable investors aren’t soliciting investment opportunities through posting messages such as “Investment Money Available” or “Looking for Projects”. In all likelihood, these posters are either operating some of the aforementioned websites and want you to subscribe or they are looking to charge you a fee for reviewing/improving your business plan or other documents.

What does work:

Shopping your business plan
If you are in the market for venture capital, do your homework. First of all, make sure you meet the criteria for venture capital investments in general. Second, identify and screen venture capital firms based on their investment criteria and portfolio companies. A good thing is if your venture can generate synergies for, provide valuable services to, and/or otherwise benefit the competitive position of one of their portfolio companies. So, if you can’t get a referral from someone they know, this is probably the next best thing. Don’t bother to mail out your business plan without having talked to them first. Most bigger firms have entrepreneurs in residence on staff, who are basically your peers and easy to talk to. Try to win them over first.

Attend venture breakfasts and seminars
If you live in a bigger city or metropolitan area, get in touch with your local chamber of commerce and see if they know of any events that would help entrepreneurs get in touch with venture capitalists or angel investors. Be wary of sponsored events that require a huge fee to attend.

Team up with a reputable professional
If you think that the task at hand is beyond your capabilities, team up with a seasoned professional with a proven track record. Like in many other professions, professionals who are successful in this field usually have no trouble pointing you to some of their success stories. Don’t fall for testimonials like “JasonF, Philadelphia: “ABC Partners did a great job securing $1.2 million for us”.

Consider alternative funding sources
I’m sure by now you will probably know that venture capital or angel investments are not the only option to fund your venture. Do some research to see if a private placement or Regulation D Offering is right for you. Although doing a private placement of your securities can be a complex and daunting process, but at least you and your team will be in charge of the entire process. If you are interested in further exploring this financing vehicle, we have two articles available on your website that you may find interesting:

Private Placements – Myth or Real Option?
http://www.insights.fastventures.com/is-bin/reviews/rev_01252008.php

Private Placements – Finding the Right Investors
http://www.insights.fastventures.com/is-bin/reviews/rev_06302008.php

Sample Private Placement Memorandum
http://www.insights.fastventures.com/premium/samples/ppm07082008/index.php

Employ common sense
There is this old saying: “If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it’s probably a duck!” So if you feel that whoever is trying “to help you” arrange financing for you venture just doesn’t feel right, walk away.


I hope this clears things up, at least a little bit.



Mark

 

FastVentures8/14/2008 2:40 PM


-------------------------


Jackson Steiner
http://www.JacksonSteiner.com

Advanced Document Design for entrepreneurs, intermediaries, and the financial services industry.
http://www.Publications.FastVentures.com
ddutton

posts: 20

Aug 14, 2008 3:36 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Thanks Mark,
 
Great advice and I think I have met all the "Don`ts" that you mentioned in the last two years. When you bootstrap a compnay you don`t have the luxury of forums and Angel Tech group meetings where 30 pitch and they talk to one - Oh, and the PPM, tried that last year - passive investor presentations of the PPM or pay $10K to a firm to prepare and market you - so if you don`t have money, you can`t get money that is the way it feels out there -
 
I know we are not VC candidates, Just angel - but they are not "Angels" as they say - certainly can do their best to dishearten an entrepreneur!
 
So, beware of all that approaches you - some want fees as SOP, and no promises either -
 
I will continue to keep and eye on www.fastventures.com for ideas.
 
Diane
RabbitMountain

posts: 423

Aug 19, 2008 2:18 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Diane — I feel your pain sister. I have gotten my business to the end-of-the-bootstrap point as well and am looking at drumming up investors, but where I`ll get the money to pay for that process and keep business humming along I have no idea.

It is astounding to me the idiocy that attracts investment, yet truly brilliant ideas get discarded like trash. Last year I was marginally involved with a financial startup that would almost certainly change the nature of international trade... yet they can`t get funded because no one gets it except for oh, say, one of the primary designers of the Euro, and the chief architect of the Iranian oil bourse. If the internet had been a matter of private investment there would be no internet.

I too am absolutely committed to investing whatever future fortune I make into entrepreneurship, especially those ideas that are too smart for the herd to wrap its head around.

—paula
ddutton

posts: 20

Aug 19, 2008 7:19 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Hi Paula,

Certainly Michael and I have said the same thing - we are really going to make the future better for some entrepreneur who has heart, a good product with a market niche that no -one else is filling.
 
We have found every possible scam on the market - many people are ready to sell you business valuations, business plan preparation, PPM services and so much more - and those that have a forum???
 
Well you can be one of the 30 who pitch so they can pick 3 to go to the next round and so much more - well talk about a needle in a haystack.
 
You can`t blame them - you want them to take the risk - some want "skin in the game" so what $300 to $400,000 isn`t skin in the game?  Oh and then you have those that will give you something for 50+% of your company and because you need the cash you may take a deal that is less than the best for your long term success.
 
MY BEST ADVICE - sell an idea - don`t waste time brining it to reality - too much of your own money and then you wait too long to look for money.  Money takes years to find unless you know the right people
 
So, yes hang in there - if you believe in yourself you might survive!
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