Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Good points Craig.  I`d like to ask this question in response.  Do you think that people can have a passion for a corporate position? 

In a couple of your previous posts, you championed the choices of entrepreneurs to leave the corporate lifestyle to pursue their dream.  But what I`ve found is that there are employees at corporations that are just as passionate as entrepreneurial individuals, and that they have pursued their passion to end up in a career suitable to their lifestyle.

The difference between my proposed community on our website pursuethepassion.com and the community that exists here is that it`s focus isn`t soley on entrepreneurship, but on pursuing the corporate jobs that induce the passionate lifestyle we are all searching for. 

What are your thoughts to that?

"Love" is when someone takes as their highest value a tangible thing, person, or some other entity---a noun. "Passion" is when someone holds as their highest value an abstraction---a concept.

In rare instances, an employee can be passionate about a corporate mission, believing that they are personally vested in owning and directing the corporation. In many of those rare situations, the employee is delusional. They perform outstanding work, and corporations love that sort of employee. They work for below what they`re worth, are dedicated, extremely loyal, and would die at their desk.

People aren`t "passionate" about SuN, is what I`m saying. They "love" the forum, chance to speak out, meet other people, and so forth. They "love" the tangible benefits of a consolidated exchange location on the Internet.

But they`re passionate about the underlying concept of being in charge, owning a business, bringing an idea to fruition, and managing their own destiny. No matter how involved a corporate employee might be, they`re not managing their own destiny. That destiny is direclty tied to, and dependent upon (not relying upon) someone else---the corporate management.

In other words, the Sloan brothers, being passionate about business, have created an outlet for *communicating* that passion in like-minded people. The community is a natural by-product of having that central outlet. Nobody can "create" a passion in someone else, just as nobody can create an emotion in anyone.

We can "cause" a feeling in someone by punching them in the nose or giving them an ice cream cone. But we can`t create emotions: Those are developed internally, personally, and subjectively. It`s why we have the expression "playing on someone`s emotions."

A writer lays out a set of circumstances, hoping to resonate with the existing emotions in the readers. The better the writer, the wider the audience of people who already have the emotions available to harmonize with the written circumstances. Same with selling: where the sales pitch resonates to pre-existing emotions.

Everyone who`s an ongoing part of the SuN community already has a passion. Those who don`t, tend to fall away from ongoing discussions. My passion is for definitions, human nature, philosophy, psychology, anthropology, and so forth---all concepts and abstract fields of information. Because of that, I "see" relationships and links between the explicit "things" of words and sentences in postings, and how they connect with underlying concepts.

Because I`m passionate about my own conceptual universe and writing, I also am driven to talk about it and write about it. It`s not that I "kinda like writing," or that I really like arguing over words. It`s that I can`t help but make those links and see relationships, and I`m not able to read something and walk away.

The ancient Greeks talked about the "daemon" and muses. They understood how a passion seemingly takes over a person`s entire being---their thinking, imagination, day-dreams, life, actions, relationships, and so forth. There`s a fine line between a passion and an obsession, similar to how people say there`s a fine line between genius and madness.

That fine line rests on the difference between pure logic, and rational logic. "Rational" means there`s a connection with an objective reality, not a subjective interpretation of reality.

Because a passion involves emotions, all passions are by definition personal. There are people who`s passions I don`t understand. There are a lot of people who don`t understand my passions. It is however possible to bring together a group of people who have the same or very similar passion. That`s how online communities form.

I recall Jeff Sloan cited a survey that found approximately 75% of Americans  want to own their own business. That`s a lot of people. What makes StartupNation so powerful is that they are offering something of value to that huge group of people. They aren`t trying to create a wave. They`re riding a huge wave that already exists.

It is relatively easy to sell a product or service to a large group of people who already know they want what you have to offer. Easier still when there is a "screaming need". It`s far more difficult to try to create a market.

I have to say when I visited your website, right after your very first SUN post, I did not get the idea that you were trying to help people find their passion in a corporate job.

Oh, by the way, I was reading one of your interviews and infamous is not the same as famous.

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Thanks for the editorial change.  We have quite a few more to make. 

"I  have to say when I visited your website, right after your very first SUN post, I did not get the idea that you were trying to help people find their passion in a corporate job."

I think that one of our weaknesses on the site is that there is no real target audience.  The message may be too general by providing stories to guide and encourage individuals to pursue a career they will be passionate about.

The first tour started out as a collection of interviews with people whose jobs were personally appealing to me, whether it was Corporate America, entrepreneurship, an academic position, or any other field that appealed to me.  The interviews purposely analyzed a variety of industries and jobs because I found myself in a similar situation to most college graduates...I had no idea what I wanted to do. 

I hoped that by having a broad interview base that I not only would have a better idea on what to pursue, but also that at least one interview we conducted would help an individual find their passion.

In short, our shortcoming, but possibly our strength is that we are accepting of all types of careers that people work in...as long as they possess a passion for it. Entrepreneurs were clearly the most passionate individuals that we came across, but not the only individuals passionate about what they do. 

So as we plan our next tour in July, I`d like to hear anyone`s thoughts about whether we need to target certain interviews, or if the broad range of interviews still works.       

You`ve got some good stuff. The fact that you know some of your weaknesses is also a good thing. If you keep at it I`m sure you`ll find what you`re seeking.

Just like SUN doesn`t promote a specific type of business (there are fora that do that and that`s ok too) the fact that you encourage people to find a passion of their own and pursue it is a good theme. I can easily see this leading to actual books being published. I see that you have started the trademark process.

Keep working at it. The fact that you are in pursuit means that you don`t get to choose the path. You can only choose whether or not to follow where the object of pursuit leads.


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Great thread!  It got me to thinking about my start-up and questioning whether I am passionate about it or not.  Of course, my first reaction was "Oh crap, it`s not my passion - am I going to fail?" but then I realized that I may not be passionate about the actual service I`m providing but I am passionate about my family and providing for them.  I also want to be a role model that shows them that you don`t have to be a corporate slave (I`ve been that before too) and you can make your life what you want.  I also want to show them that if you`re not doing WHAT you`re passionate about, that hopefully, you can be passionate about WHY you`re doing it.

I`m also very passionate about not living under a bridge when I`m 60 

Oh I dunno...I think you have a valid target market. It`s just not people with "passion"...........yet! Your target market is people who are fearful of leaping into their passion.

As Steve said, a passion is deeply personal. It`s that strange moment when someone literally falls in love with an idea---an abstraction. Given so many people don`t even understand love, and that`s for a physical event, it`s not surprising even fewer people can recognize when they fall in love with an idea.

Following the analog, consider the trepidation, fear, anxiety, and "run like hell" response people feel when they`re only falling in love with another human bean! At least they have a pretty good idea of human inter-relationships. They can *see* the person they think they might be falling in love with!

But you can`t *see* an idea.

Add to the mix that people believe falling in love involves skyrockets, explosions, total lust, obsession, and being unable to think clearly. Nonsense, but that`s what 400 years of artistic poetry does for a culture. If you ask a business owner if they feel ANY of that, they`d just laugh.

So here you`ve got people (75% of the population, apparently) who can`t tell the difference between love and lust, don`t know how to define values, rarely are introspective, have little practice with using their imagination as a tool. How do they even know if the idea they`ve got for a business even makes sense?

Your site provides example to people, of what it`s like to discover an idea, be afraid of that discovery, then to pick away at it. It`s a way to show how other people think, dream, and wonder about what seems to be a crazy-ass idea, and what they`re doing with it. You`re providing a way to "transmit" confidence in one`s ability to think.

Being confident in action is one thing. Being confident in thinking is different. You could say that you`re offering courage, rather than explictly offering confidence. Later, when the site has matured, you could probably develop it as some sort of training institute, providing lessons and exercises that would move someone from "fearful wondering," through courage, into "confident business startup."

First things first. Startup Nation speaks to people who`ve (for the most part) alread taken the plunge. Your site speaks to people who haven`t yet climbed the ladder up to the high-diving board. They`ve seen others do it, but figure it takes a special skill. No...it takes courage, then a willingness to jump in the water.

Thanks again for all the advice Craig.  The target market thing is something that I am struggling with right now as I seek to obtain some sponsorships from corporations and small businesses.  It just seems that our target market of people fearful of pursuing the passion can`t be pinned down into an age group or demographic.  It is universal, from entrepreneurs who have had the experience to college graduates conforming to a job because that`s what they are suppossed to do. 

So how am I suppossed to explain my target market demographics to potential investors?

I think you have to get them before you can sell them.


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I`d build the site first, with a whole lot of activity. THEN you have a product where you can sell advertising or whatever shows up as an opportunity.

The Sloan brothers made money from their own invention. As a secondary line of business, they began inspirational speaking. From there, they opened up the Startup Nation site. That naturally led to a forum, which has become very active.

So suppose they had no invention, and didn`t do any inspirational speaking, never put their name out there, and nobody knew them. Would they have attracted "investors?" Probably not.

People today are longing for certainty. Modern philosophy, theology, psychology, and literature have gone for anywhere between 300 and 50 years destroying that certainty. The result is a "State of Fear," as Michael Crighton has so brilliantly developed in the novel by the same name.

If they can`t have certainty, they look for consensus---fitting in. Right now, there isn`t a central location for people with fear and uncertainty relative to their working future. Your site could become such a clearing house, almost like some sort of support group.