Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Hi all, I am new to Startup Nation. Thanks for any feedback you give me.

I am working with a friend to bring a business idea to fruition. We have, what we think, is a wonderful idea for an internet based business. Without giving too much away it is not a b2b or an internet store per say. Rather it is more along the lines of community building and the marketing of ones self.

My question is, how do we protect our idea? I was reading through the United States Patent Office website and it seems like a patent covers tangible items and not business ideas. Also, it looks like copyrights do not protect business ideas. Is there a way to protect our business idea? Say I was the creator of MySpace.com. Can that type of business idea be protected? If so, how so?

Thanks,

KjO

Hi there--
I`m not an expert on this (there are other folks on this board who are), but I know there are business method patents which may--or may not be able to protect your idea.
The business method patents are under the same scrutiny and, in some case, more scrutiny as other patent applications. So, you really have to weigh things: do you want to spend time, effort, and money working on a patent app, or do you want to get your business out there in front of people and earning money. I think that`s the typical debate entrepreneurs in your position have with themselves.
Hope this helps you.

The Swaynester

 

Neither am I an expert, but we`ve just gone through exactly this question ourselves. The way we resolved it has much to do with how easy is it to copy the actual idea. In our case, one product line is so complicated to make, nobody will likely be able to "reverse-engineer" the process. However, they can come up with cheap knock-offs, and we believe the customers will know the difference.

The other product is very easy to copy and make. The idea itself is "obvious" after someone sees it put into action. In that case, we`re making the product and not counting our labor. Logically, even if some company tries to make the same item, their labor costs will push the price well beyond our market price.

Ultmately, we decided that the cost and complexity of a patent best applies to a mechanical device with explicit design processes. Patenting an "idea" is far to vague, much like trying to trademark the word Idea.

Then, so what if you patent the idea or thing? I just read about the poor schmuck who invented the "music walkman device." He tried marketing to Sony, and they rejected him. Then they built one themselves and made bazillions. The inventor began a lawsuit that was to run over decades. I think (if I remember) he started the suit when he was in his early 30s, and finally won a 6-figure settlement in his mid-50s.

Someone asked, "was it worth it?" He spent his entire life, all his money, and every relationship he ever had on the single-minded purpose of getting what he was due. In the end, he had lots of money and the vindication of knowing he got credit. In the meantime, the world moved on to CD players, DVDs, MP3 players, and abandonned tape cassettes. Sony gave way to iPod, and this guy is now middle-aged.

My advice is to only bother with patents if you have something that a design engineer can lay down on paper, with specifications. Apply for a copyright on original writing that has enough content where someone can say, "Oh...someone else copied this." Beyond that, just go as fast as you can, take the money by being first, then hope for the best.

Thanks for all your input. Right now I am leaning to just full steam ahead. However, I was curious about provisional patents. They seem to be less intensive. I am curios if any of you have had expereince with provisional patents.

Thanks

Lol, this post is kinda funny. You seem to be having the same EXACT problem I`m having, and I posted a topic pretty much with the same exact questions. You seem to be where I was at a few months ago. I`ve given up on the patents idea, seems like too much for something that`s not going to guarantee full protection anyway. Take a look at my post  under the "Building a Website that Works" section entitled Need Help Protecting my Website Idea. Got a lot of replies and people were very helpful. So there you have it.

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I want to know, if I can live with what I know. And only that.

Oh yea. And I really wouldn`t be worried about people taking your idea after the site is up and running. If it`s truly your original idea, you`ll be able to present it in the best way possible. And establishing your site as the first site to bring it to the public will surely be enough protection. It`s sorta like myspace. They can`t protect the right to allow people to fully customize a profile, but because they were the first to do it and established themselves, no one`s gonna come around with an "ispace" and [succesfully] atleast, do the same exact thing and try to steal members. That`s just not how it works.

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I want to know, if I can live with what I know. And only that.

new business methods can be patentable subject matter.

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James Lindon, Ph.D. Patent Attorney
Lindon & Lindon, LLC
Cleveland, Ohio
Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, Pharmacy Law, Litigation
[this is not legal advice - provided for discussion only]
Intellectual Property for the Individual and Small Business: Identify, Protect, Enforce, Defend.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
http://www.LindonLaw.com

It is great that you have decided to move forward. 

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Here are some links to blogs about ideas.

Ideas are just a multiplier of execution

The Myth of the Great Idea

It`s The Economics, Stupid - Why A New Idea Isn`t The Key To Entrepreneurship

You can’t protect a good idea

Alpha Dogs: Great Ideas Still Need Solid Strategy
 
A VC and a Book: More Proof that Execution Matters

I agree with most everything that has been posted.  Except that provisional patents, if written properly, cost the same as non-provisional patents.  Kathy hit the nail on the head about provisional patents.  So I do not see that they have much value.  But I know Dr. Lindon does not agree with me on this.

If you are certain that patenting will not be of benefit, my understanding is that there is great value in being the first in any line of business.  Also, it helps to have a really good trademark or service mark so that others have a much harder time competing with you.  In other words when the public wants your goods or services your name is the first one that they think of. 

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Norton R. Townsley
Patent Attorney/Professional Engineer
The above message is provided for general information purposes only and is not to be construed as legal advice.

Hello everyone,

I have an idea for something that already exists BUT for use in
another way. An elementary example. Someone created a ball, first
used in, say baseball. But later someone used the same ball concept
to build a football, soccer ball or basketball. True they are balls, but
used for different purposes and therefore a new idea for the USE of
the idea of a ball. Now because the technology exists and it doesn`t
need to be created, only applied differently, this would truly be an
idea only. One that could be presented to a company for them to
make, sell, distribute, etc. It would be all theirs at that point. But
since it was my idea, I would want compensation. Comments?
Opinions? Ideas? School of Hard Knocks? Thanks, SG