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Shokoya

posts: 80

May 14, 2009 5:03 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Yea I said it...people with degrees are dumb.

I know this post`s going to offend a few readers.

But like Rhett Butler told Scarlette Ohara in `Gone With the Wind`...

"Frankly I don`t give a damn"

(Ok - what he really said was "Frankly my dear, I don`t give a damn" - but that`s beside the point!)

Before I go any further, let me make one thing clear...

I`m not talking about everyone with a degree (if I was, that would be dumb. Then this post would be about me and not about dumb people with degrees.)

But I am talking about a significant number of dumb degree holders that make this post worth writing.

Why would I say such a thing?

Here`s why...

Over the years I`ve come across an alarming number of people with degrees who lack good old common sense and the ability to think outside the box (what is it they say -- common sense isn`t common?)

I`ve found that a large number of university graduates do well when presented with a problem that requires structured resolution steps -- they simply follow A to B to C, without much thought.

But when faced with a similar problem with no predetermined variables or structure, a disturbing number appear to lack the ability to apply the same principles to the problem.

In other words, if you tell them to get from A to Z by following the normal sequence of letters, they can do it. But if you tell them to get from A to Z in less than two steps without missing any letters in between (solution at the end of this post), most of them have a mental melt-down.

I believe this is because a large number of students spend their years in University remembering how to apply what they`ve been taught, as opposed to really understanding the underlying principles of what they`re being taught.

And in their exams they simply regurgitate what they`ve remembered, without really understanding the underlying reasons for doing it -- or being aware that there might be alternatives.

Here`s something else that makes me conclude that people with degrees are dumb...

Have you ever been in one of those meetings where most of those present have fancy letters like Dr, BSC, MSC, MA etc before or after their names?

This often creates the illusion that these guys are so much more intelligent than everyone else there. It can also be quite intimidating when the only letters you have after your name are your surname!

The objective of the meeting is to try and find a solution to a major problem. You sit there trying to make sense of all the complicated terms and information being thrown around by the intellects and academics.

And within 5 minutes you think you`ve made sense of it and have come up with a possible solution.

But you dismiss it because you tell yourself that if all these clever people are still trying to come up with a solution, then obviously you`ve completely misunderstood the problem.

The meeting drags on and the more they discuss the issues, the more you`re convinced you DO have the solution. So at the risk of sounding stupid, you suggest it quietly under your breath.

Now all eyes are on you. They ask you to explain. So in simple terms you tell them what you understand the problem to be and how you think it can be resolved.

At that point a couple of faces light up as they think to themselves -- `hmm....that might work`.

But because of the simplicity -- and the need to prove they`re intellectual superior -- a few take the simple solution, spend another hour over analysing it, and then finally regurgitate the same solution back to the group.

Only this time using academic speech to make it sound much more complicated than it really is.

Can you relate?

It`s these experiences that have led me to conclude that a large number of degree holders really are quite dumb.

Maybe that`s why they feel the need to parade their letters for all to see. They want everyone to believe they`re really smart, even though they`re not.

A bit like men with big cars who have small feet. Nuff said :)

Needless to say I`m sure some of you might disagree with my opening statement and have your own opinion. If so, please share them in the `comments` section below.

Else, let`s agree that people with degrees are dumb.

Ade Shokoya - founder www.ItsAnEntrepreneursWorld.com

P.S: Here`s a possible solution that will get you from A to Z in less than 2 steps...

Go backwards directly from A to Z!
Shokoya5/14/2009 5:01 PM
OfficeGoddess

posts: 29

May 14, 2009 6:21 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I`m afraid I agree with much of what you have posted above.  Personally, I believe it is because we are taught in school to memorize rather than to think.  I have found, however, that many of the `dumbly degreed` folk who have been out of school more than 10 years and become successful in their careers have had to LEARN to think for themselves.

I always say its not what you know, but knowing where to look!



-------------------------

Lily E. Chambers CPS, CQU
"Why hire a mere mortal when you have access to a Goddess"
www.virtualofficegoddess.com
BizOptimizer

posts: 63

May 14, 2009 8:29 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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If you call somone like Bill Gates poor - or stupid.  He`s probably not threatened.  Most informed listeners would realize it is the person doing the accusing that is at question.
 
I`ve been in meetings, as everyone, with degrees that can`t deliver.  But maybe that is noticed because the majority without degrees didn`t rank a meeting invite.  I`ve been in meetings where the solution comes from the less degreed person (me usually before MBA) and others came from the degreed.  I`ve seen degreed and nondegreed that didn`t understand the concept, spouted off to prove he didn`t know - and then is convinced it was his idea reconstituted that ended the meeting.
 
Think generalizations often reflect the lack of thought in the original premise?  A degree is just proof that you completed a path.   It is just a guided tour - it makes you neither smart or dumb.  But a degree does say you`ve reached a level that many didn`t try or couldn`t accomplish.   But of all the measures of a man - it is but one in BILLIONS of measures. I`m not smart enough rank them all.
 
I submit that if this type talk convinces one kid not to get an education, it has hurt both the kid and the world he lives in.  I know because I told my kids how unnecesary it was before I found out what an education was.  I`ve been on both sides.  I can tell you, you Don`t Know what you Don`t Know (DK2) - until you do know.  And knowing what I know today I wish I could take back my advice.


-------------------------

Ed
Business Optimization - www.businessoptimization.biz
CraigL

posts: 9051

May 15, 2009 3:09 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Education was never intended to spoon-feed anything other than past and historic knowledge to young people. It`s meant to teach "dead" knowledge so that new people don`t have go back and re-invent the wheel.

What parents, the overall society, and life are supposed to teach is adaptability. Schools took over the job, theoretically working out programs to teach children such things as critical thinking, analysis, adaptation, competition, and other such critical character traits.

Modern education eliminated all that, and changed the idea of knowledge. Children are now encouraged to re-invent the wheel, to come up with "alternative solutions," and that whatever they come up with is just as good as past knowledge.

It`s called outcome-based education, where "esteem" is a higher value than actual knowledge, adaptability, and functional experience.

(PS: how does going backward from Z-A also include all the letters? Z is the end of the set and isn`t a natural part of the sequence.)
CraigL2009-5-15 3:10:43
Shokoya

posts: 80

May 15, 2009 10:47 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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I have found, however, that many of the `dumbly degreed` folk who have been out of school more than 10 years and become successful in their careers have had to LEARN to think for themselves.

I always say its not what you know, but knowing where to look!




Hi Goddess,

Totally agree. "Streetsmart" seems to be the key to innovation and creativity. Especially for entrepreneurs.

In fact, here is an extract from an article I recently read on Harvard Business Org, entitled: MBAs vs Entrepreneurs: Who Has The Right Stuff For Tough Times?

---------

One place to look for answers is the fascinating research of Professor Saras Sarasvathy, who teaches entrepreneurship at the Darden Graduate School of Business at the University of Virginia. It`s been a long time since I`ve encountered academic research as original, relevant, and fascinating as what Professor Sarasvathy has done, in a series of essays, white papers, and a book.

Her work revolves around one big question: What makes entrepreneurs "entrepreneurial?" Specifically, is there such as thing as "entrepreneurial thinking" — and does it differ in important ways from, say, how MBAs think about problems and seize opportunities?

The answer, Sarasvathy concludes, is an emphatic yes — and the differences boil down to the "causal" reasoning used by MBAs versus the "effectual" reasoning used by entrepreneurs. Causal reasoning, she explains, "begins with a pre-determined goal and a given set of means, and seeks to identify the optimal — fastest, cheapest, most efficient, etc. — alternative to achieve that goal." This is the world of exhaustive business plans, microscopic ROI calculations, and portfolio diversification.

Effectual reasoning, on the other hand, "does not begin with a specific goal. Instead, it begins with a given set of means and allows goals to emerge contingently over time from the varied imagination and diverse aspirations of the founders and the people they interact with." This is the world of bootstrapping, rapid prototyping, and guerilla marketing.

-----

You can read the full article via the following link: 

http://blogs.harvardbusiness.org/taylor/2009/05/mbas_vs_entrepreneurs_who_has.html

Shokoya5/15/2009 11:35 AM
Shokoya

posts: 80

May 15, 2009 11:03 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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If you call somone like Bill Gates poor - or stupid.  He`s probably not threatened.  Most informed listeners would realize it is the person doing the accusing that is at question.
 


Hey Biz Optimizer,

Hmmm....not sure who called Bill Gates or anyone else "poor - or stupid". So maybe you can elaborate to all who the "accuser" you refer to here is so we can put them to question.

I agree that people with degrees are not the only ones who are “dumb”.

But let’s be honest - society has led us to expect less “dumbness” from people with degrees than those without. So in contrast, a dumb person with a degree appears to be a lot more dumb than a dumb person without one.

And in my opinion, that’s worth writing about.

"Think generalizations often reflect the lack of thought in the original premise?"

I did say at the beginning of the post that I`m not talking about EVERYONE who has a degree - so not quite sure the generalisation referered to here. Please elaborate - because I must confess that sometimes I miss the point and maybe I`m just having a `dumb` moment

In closing I would also submit that if any kid decides not to get an education, simply on the basis of reading a personal opinion in a forum like this, then that kid really is dumb and falls into the group of dumb people without a degree.

Shokoya

posts: 80

May 15, 2009 11:37 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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(PS: how does going backward from Z-A also include all the letters? Z is the end of the set and isn`t a natural part of the sequence.)



Hey Craig,

Always can trust you to be on the ball

It was a lateral thinking question and there was no requirement to include all the letters. Just not to miss any letters in between.

Z might be at the end of the set in `structured thinking`. But lateral/out of box thinking is more object focused and less constrained by boundaries.

So the alphabet can be viewed as a continuum or loop where A immediately follows Z and Z immediately comes before A.
CraigL

posts: 9051

May 15, 2009 2:33 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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LOL! I`m familiar with setting up a problem, implying a rule, then saying that the rule didn`t actually exist when explaining the supposed solution. :-)

The problem here is to generate analogies, then claim that because the analogy fails, therefore the underlying reality itself isn`t correct or true.

Human minds naturally function on the foundation of sets, hierarchies, and systems. To think more quickly, we also typically move toward the simplest solution. Our mind moves along an "assumed" pathway in order to anticipate the next, most likely events.

Using that built-in capability, people can easily come up with plenty of ways to fool the mind. Optical illusions are a perfect example, where the eye and mind make certain assumptions. But can we say that because someone fails to see the second aspect of an illusion they therefore can`t think? No.

Most of us differentiate between academic and practical learning. The mistake many people with degrees make is to assign high priority to their academic, theoretical knowledge. But just as many non-degreed people assign high priority to their own, personal practical knowledge.

The better solution is a balance of both. Wouldn`t you agree?
CraigL2009-5-15 14:34:13
Shokoya

posts: 80

May 15, 2009 2:48 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Hey Craig,

But isn`t it a fact of life that many things are implied and appear to be one way, when in reality they are totally the opposite. It really depends on the mindset and perspective that we bring to the problem that will determine the solution we see.

In fact, isn`t that what makes entrepreneurs like Bill Gates successful. They see the angle where most people don`t. They think and work outside the perceived constraints that box most people in.

For them there are no rules - just ways to make it work.

Re your final statment:

Most of us differentiate between academic and practical learning. The mistake many people with degrees make is to assign high priority to their academic, theoretical knowledge. But just as many non-degreed people assign high priority to their own, personal practical knowledge.

The better solution is a balance of both. Wouldn`t you agree?


Debatable -- depending on a number of variables. But for the sake of simplicity I agree that as with everything in life it`s all about balance.

Once again, just want to highlight that in no way am I suggesting that one group is smarter or dumber than the other.

Just that a significant number of people with degrees display a level of dumbness that -- right or wrong -- we typically don`t expect from them.

Hence this post
Shokoya5/15/2009 2:54 PM
CraigL

posts: 9051

May 15, 2009 2:50 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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:-) Yup...and it`s the "keeping it simple" that led to my responses. For 50 years, pop-culture has been arguing that keeping things simple works just as well as taking the time to understand the real complexities.

The result has been countless gurus telling everyone how easy it is to make a million dollars, find true love, get everything they want, and live a perfect life. The gurus make millions of dollars, and their audience wonders why they`re frustrated.

I`ll argue that the world economic situation and the overall collapse in values begins with this desire to generalize with simplistic "solutions."

I`m also arguing that there`s nothing wrong with trying to simplify complex things *as long as* everyone understands that the results are casual and shouldn`t apply to real life. Sort of like casual conversation on a bus.

"Business executives are thieves." That`s just trying to keep things simple, and explain why we need government takeovers of private industry. It`s a simple explanation as to why we need trillion-dollar bailouts, forced bankruptcies, and a restructuring of the world economy. Just trying to keep things simple. :-) That`s my main objection.
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