Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Erin wrote: 

"Thank you for your post, it "spoke" to me. I also was not offended. I do not consider myself weak, sometimes folks take niceness for either stupidity or that they can walk all over you. I have been learning to create a line between niceness and firmness. I have had situations with men that you mentioned and women. I also have clients that respect that i run a business but when i get the folks that want free, free, free..i have sometimes felt uncomfortable and am learning to be more firm. I have been a success both personally and professionally but have always had issues with asking for payment. Thanks for your post it was appreciated:)."

DMM:  Thanks for your kind words as they are greatly appreciated.  I`ve met a lot of women who are strong in a lot of ways.  They are strong partners to the people they love, they are strong when it comes to their family and home, they are strong when it comes to doing what they do  - and doing it well.  And they might be socially outgoing and friendly.  No wallflower here. 

But doggone it there`s something about selling and marketing that makes them squidgy. 

And it`s really important to have healthy boundaries.  You can be polite and pleasant and still hold your ground.

Many many women grow up with a steady diet of hearing:

*  Don`t toot your own horn

*  Be a nice girl

*  Let everyone else go first

*  And for goodness sake - don`t call the boy.

Last month I gave a talk in front of the Las Vegas Women`s Realtor Council - there were 150 women Realtors in attendance.  I asked them to put their hands up if they heard at least two of these statements growing up.  By the time I said all five - every hand in the room was up.

The problem is when you start a business you`re told:

*  You gotta toot your own horn

*  You can`t take "no" for an answer

*  You should position yourself as the expert or the authority

*  You need to call, call, call.  Or connect, connect, connect - depending on the kind of business you have.

Something feels "off" because in effect we`re being told that we basically have to be 180 degrees different from how we were raised and conditioned.  And it`s on an almost imperceptible level but many women have told me they feel like a brazen hussy, a barracuda and a b*tch trying to pick up the phone and call a lead they met a few days before at a networking meeting.  Of course - they were trained that nice girls don`t call.  What I do is help them learn to make different conscious choices rather than react from that automatic knee-jerk conditioning so they can do the the things that have felt uncomfortable - combined with good marketing strategy and tactics - so that they can have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money.

Is it for everyone?  Of course not.  But there are women like Erin who connect with what I say - and manyothers - for whom it`s perfect.

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing"

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

Jeez Louise! I thought we had some vague contextual appreciation lying around!

Alright, I`ll use the extra words people complain about:

The KEY point here is that reality exists. It hasn`t the slighest iota of willful consciousness where it comes to human beings. Reality is simply that---reality. To say that women have some mysterious functionality in their ability to interact with reality is to say that "women" are an entirely different species of being. That`s patently absurd.

Women often are trained to function in certain ways by their environment and culture. Upon maturity they can choose or not to re-examine that training and change it.

Does that mean ONLY women can re-examine their initial training, where men are incapable of such a feat? Or does it mean women NEVER can change their initial training? That too is utterly ridiculous.

Generally speaking, it appears that women are more comfortable using both sides of their brain while thinking. Does that mean men NEVER use both sides of their brain? Or that ONLY women have access to both sides of their brain? Once again, utterly ridiculous.

So: In what unique way do ALL women differ from ALL men, yet remain with in the defined set of Human Being? Reproductive capability and function.

Let`s suppose I start a topic: "Left Handers: Take care of yourself first!"

The implications are that:

1. Right-handers have no reason to read this post.
2. Left-handers have some sort of genetic problem unique to their being left-handed.

To even form the topic heading carries with it an "implied" distinction, separating left-handed people from other people. Is it an essential distinction, making left-handed people entirely separate from other human beings?

To further expand the article, I`ll suggest that:

:-) As they say, "Dyslexic people of the world UNTIE!" (Raised fist of solidarity!)

Men used to open doors for women, pick up the check at dinner, and other gestures of courtesy and cultural etiquette. Then women started complaining that these gestures were demonstrations of power, lording it over women that they had no money, shouldn`t have money, and didn`t deserve money.

Those feminists told everyone that women wanted to be "equal." So men stopped opening doors, quit picking up the check, and expected women to compete in the world on an equal footing. How terrific is that?

PLENTY of men have problems negotiating salaries, demanding payment prior to services rendered, and learning how to cope with raising children. Plenty of women have no trouble running an engineering firm, being firefighters, demanding money for services, and negotiating in their favor. (Divorce actions seem to indicate women have little trouble *as women* knowing how to be tough negotiators.)

This thread highlights the idea that ANYone, man or woman who persists in blaming someone else and something else for their own lack of ingenuity simply wants to be considered a victim.

If you don`t like what you`re getting in life, change! Otherwise, keep doing what you`re doing and you`ll keep getting what you`re getting. If you believe "women" (qua women) are "naturally" less capable than men, then YOU will find your reality seems to confirm your belief. But that doesn`t mean objective reality actually is the way you believe it to be. So re-examine your own beliefs first.

I actually read all 5 pages of this diatribe...

First I think a better Topic Title would have been: 

People: Take Care of YOU First in Your Business - $$$$

 The previous antecdote about the individual not making the paypal payment for your services leaves the impression that you assumed that he did it because you are a woman and that he wouldn`t have hesitated making the payment had you been a man.  Assuming is like stereotyping....

Most purchases are made when a persons emotions take precedent over their logic.  I get the feeling that DMM works this approach.  "Ladies it`s not your fault you aren`t the success you should be - it`s because all men are hell bent on keeping you in a subservient role."  That ought to get the old emotional juices boiling.... please sign the contract where x marks the spot.

And I agree with Nikole.... posting links to other boards that require you to register and login is just rude.

But then again... I`m a man and the root of all evil.

CraigL... I really gotta quit checking out your profile to see where you are currently posting.

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Pokerman It`s not about what you can do... it`s about what you will do! Amateur Poker League Software - Drive Traffic - Add 100,000 Songs to your website - Music Catalog

Boy Pokerman - you really didn`t read my posts.

I don`t think men are "the enemy" at all.  If you read over my posts and the posts of most of the people who contributed to this thread - I don`t think there`s a single place where men are maligned.  Getting your exercize jumping to conclusions this morning?

The instances I`m talking about (and after all these posts I find it surprising that you didn`t notice this) are instances where women hold themselves back.  We have met the enemy and she is us. 

In the initial post Gil indeed didn`t pay me on time (and I know him well enough to know he has the money).  I`ll never know if it was a conscious or subconscious thing to try and slide on the payment - all I know is what happened.  I also know women in my teleclasses and the women I mentor - when someone really tries to dicker them down on their prices - the majority of the time - it`s likely to be a man.  I`m not blaming the men.  Go back to my original post on page one.  All they`re doing is making sure they get the best price possible.  It`s smart business - but I was suggesting that we shouldn`t cave in so fast in the interest of "being nice."  And in a later post I quote author Warren Farrell Ph.D. who suggest that women - who very often don`t negotiate - should learn to do so.

Yes, there are rural pockets in this country where the old boys network still has a stronghold on business and women are shut out - but those areas are fewer and farther in-between.  I`m thinking of my friend Rebecca - a dynamic, very sharp woman who married a man last year who lives in rural Louisiana.  She`s going stir crazy with boredom and has been totally unable to break into business there - so she comes back to Las Vegas here - does a ton of business for a couple weeks - and then goes back to that sleepy berg down south.  (She claims the area is both sexist and racist and I hope she`s able to convince her new hubby to move here or at least another city.)

To Craig:  The science about women using both sides of the brain is due to the differences in our brain connections and synapses.  The corpus callosum is a band of tissue between both hemispheres of the brain and in women it`s about 10% larger so there are more signals firing across the hemispheres.  Additionally science reveals that women have more connections within each hemisphere so there are more signals firing for women within each hemisphere, too.  So one attendee at a workshop summed it up by saying, "Oh, so our brains are like a bowl of pasta and theirs are more like an Eggo waffle."  Kinda.  The most obvious result of this is that women are better multi-taskers than men.  This has been proven in studies where women and men were given a bunch of different tasks to complete in a very limited time - and the women all completed them and the men did not.

I recently heard someone say much younger men these days have picked up these multi-tasking abilities and have developed the ability to do so due to the crazy multi-demands of the world we live in and the more expanded roles of men at work and at home - so it certainly can be learned by men.  But in the past it wasn`t necessary so men didn`t learn it.  I haven`t seen any evidence that this is true yet - but I`m on the lookout.  An article.  A study.  Something.  People constantly send me info about differences between men and women - so I`m sure something will come to light eventually.

Yes, obviously women have the ability to run an engineering firm or run a nation if they want to and develop the skills and experience.  The thing is many, many women were raised to be wives and moms and maybe employees but certainly not an out-there, confident business owner.  If you`re reading this and you were raised with that level of confidence and can-do spirit consider yourself fortunate.  There are millions of your sisters across the US and around the world that were not and so they have personal obstacles to overcome to get there.  It`s both nature and nurture and conditioning can be changed if a woman makes a conscious choice to do so - I`m simply providing a solution for those women who want to do so.

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing"

Get the book at http://www.tfmbook.com  

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

This whole thread is stereotyping! And just when I thought it couldn`t get any worse, along comes "feminist drivel"! (*sigh*) Let`s add to the list: women, women in business, men in business, people from California, and now feminists.

I have to commend you though. You just COMPLETELY hit the nail on the head about what is so bothersome here. The stereotyping of all these groups, as CraigL is skirting in his posts, is merely a slight bother for me - just something to get me a little riled up. But the marketing ethics involved in pointing out someone`s flaws to sell a book, now you`ve hit the heart of the matter! To a lesser extent, the beauty and fashion industry uses these tactics all day long ... save a few that are trying to promote a better image for themselves.  The problem here is that she kept going to expand on this idea that "women suck in business because they are wired that way". Hey, let`s even point out studies to prove her point! But my question all along is this: WHY GO THERE? Why not uplift and empower? EVERYONE is bad at sales and marketing without practice. When you are not great at something, your self confidence in that area is low. The kind of marketing that started this thread preys on low self confidence. It`s great if the end result is to increase her client`s confidence level through training and practice ... but why kick someone when they are already down?

And for those of you who thought this was a great solution for you, I`m going to present a real solution for you. You can read about it here in a review on my blog.

Nikole:

Start paying attention to marketing, advertising and selling in a more detached, Zen kind of way and you`ll see that much of it stems from the basic premise that people have problems and they are looking for solutions to those problems.

It can be the problem of wanting whiter teeth and fresher breath, a faster internet connection, a better website, a more fit body.  None of those things would be necessary if people were not dis-satisfied with what they currently have. 

Look at the commercials for Apple computers with the PC and the Mac guy.  They`re pointing out problems with PCs and particularly their newly launched operating system, Vista.  They`re doing it in an amusing way - but it`s still pointing out problems - and then offering solutions. 

Problem - solution.  I`m not kicking anyone down - I`m empathizing with where they already happen to be.  And Nikole - you`re soooooo not there that you see it as kicking down.  Once again - it goes back to the fact that you don`t fit the profile of my ideal customer.  That`s why my words don`t resonate with you.

I find it amazing - you don`t understand my customer, her issues and concerns, what I offer and the benefits - but you continue pushing me to change my copy to suit you - someone who is not my ideal customer. 

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing"

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

Ha! not at all Nikole, not at all. I agree with your sentiments. However, I doubt that you`ll ever get Denise to change. For her this is a business and her business is profitable with this approach, put yourself in her shoes, would you change your approach to a profitable business if somebody like you (you) objects to the manner in which you conduct business? I doubt it. In fact, your reaction is likely to make this a "hot topic" increasing the chances of exposing her, her books and lectures to potential customers that would not have seen them had you not kept this thread in front in the front burner with your comments.  Remember, controversy sells. Looks to me like you are being played like a puppet. ;-)

Eli - Gee thanks!

Actually this is OK for this to become a hot topic ... as I said in one of the earlier summary posts, there`s a lot of good info here.

And if someone who is marketing their business reads this, and sees my point ... well then maybe I`ve brought another person away from the dark side of marketing and all will be well. And I felt free to toss in at least 2 links to people who I thought had better products (or at least better marketing pitches) ... maybe they will get some business from this too.

Denise -

Pointing out differences in the product between mac and PC ... and pointing out flaws in a person ... very different.

I don`t expect you to change your marketing pitch.

What I want is an open discussion for people in marketing who actually care about doing better and not stooping to that level ... well then maybe those people can agree to not prey upon those who have low self confidence in order to bring them down enough to buy your book so that they can lift themselves back up. (Most women`s fitness commercials are now about feeling fit and strong ... they don`t tell you that you are a fat slob and need a gym membership.)

I really can`t post any more examples than I already have. I know you don`t see the difference, but that`s OK too. You have every right to be who you are.

True empowerment comes from doing something outside yourself.

I hear you Nikole. Marketing is fascinating; the twist that we put on our words is powerful.

I once worked for a company- RV Sales. They decided on a positioning statement, "Your Fun is Our Business". I was beside myself telling them why it was bad. I would never like someone believing that my fun is any of their business at all, and further more I would resent a company that was touting the fact that they were making their fortune off of my endeavor to have a little fun. They stuck with it, without any tools to gage the markets response I have no idea how bad it hurt them...

A few years later I worked for another company, they too had a positioning statement, "We sell Fun!" I felt better working for that company, and if I was in the market for an RV, you bet I would have checked them out first. Those statements were very similar but very different.

 Of course you have to remember that most marketing is to get the consumer to your business, the rest is up to you, how they are treated, what is the offer, why should I move to take advantage of that offer--hopefully now.

Oops, my Bon Bons are melting and my soap opera is calling...

Deb

 

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"If you`ve got a frog to swallow, don`t look at it too long. And if you`ve got more than one to swallow, swallow the biggest one first"--Danny Cox