Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Over the last five years I`ve trained thousands of people in marketing and info-preneuring so it was a pleasant surprise when I got a call last Thursday (one week ago) from one of my "graduates." A terrific guy with an ebullient sense of energy named Gil. He has a really cool product that he`s taken to market and will have on HSN at the end of this month.

After we got caught up (I met him a little over a year ago in New York) he told me he was putting on a seminar at the end of this month and needed help organizing and pulling it together. He asked me what I would charge to help him out. I told him that I charge $--- for four, one hour consultats - usually once a week - but his event was coming up so soon we would need to do `em twice a week so he`s got everything done in time. He said, "Okay, let`s get started."

We scheduled a phone meeting for this morning. I told him I would PayPal him for the $--- payment and then once that was taken care of I`d look forward to helping him as much as I possibly could to insure that he has a great event. We hung up the phone and I paypal`d him for the funds. Then I sent reminders on Saturday and Monday.

This morning he called for our meeting. I told him, "Gil, I really want to help you so you have a great event - but like I said before I need to have you take care of the paypal first and then we can get started and my aim is to give you everything I can so you have a great event."

He hemmed and hawed a bit. Did I send it to the right email address? Yes. He said he didn`t see it. Then I told him I sent two reminders. He finally admitted he wasn`t online for the last few days. Okay, whatever. I told him let`s reschedule for this afternoon and take care of the PayPal and then we can dig right in.

He was polite but I almost felt like maybe he thought (maybe I`m wrong - who knows) that because I`m a woman that I wouldn`t bring it up. After all I know a lot of women who get squirmy at the thought of sending out an invoice for work they`ve already done - let alone consults I haven`t provided yet.

I was polite but firm. There would be no consult without his payment. Sorry - not gonna happen.

Ladies, keep in mind people will try to push you. They will sing the blues about their finances and try to get you to dicker down your prices. (My experience is that men try to get you to come down on price - women want it all for free)

When men try to dicker you down in price or push you it`s not necessarily because they can`t afford you. It`s just a business thing - pure and simple. They are pushing you because they want to see how "firm" you are on your prices. Don`t get upset about it - don`t get emotional about it. If you`re the right person for them and they "get" that you`re not budging - they`ll pay you your full rate. If you really sense that they can`t afford it and you need to lower their rate - don`t do it for "free." Tell them you`ll lower the rate if they`ll give you "X" number of referrals or something else that will help you. Make sure that you get a fair exchange of value and take care of you first.

Btw, Gil paid the PayPal within an hour for the full amount and did an awesome first consult with him yesterday.

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing"

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

I don`t want to pick on you, really. I`m not a big jerk!

I just have to say this and then I`ll be done ... and I`ll just stop reading your posts.

When someone markets something like this to women, you are part of the problem and not the solution. When you assume that someone is not firm or not businesslike or not commanding respect because they are women ... to the point where you have built a business teaching them these things ... then you are a part of the problem because you think just like the people do that see women as lesser professionals.

Let`s use my mom as an example, because she`s a good one. She is a structural engineer. She runs her own office. So when she shows up to the job site and some foreman treats her like she`s the secretary, then he`s part of the problem for making a bad assumption. But when you assume she`s not going to put him in his place because she`s a woman ... you, too, are a part of the problem. Women are still the minorities in science, engineering and technology, and attitudes like this are not helping the situation any.

There are many sales and marketing training programs that are dedicated to helping women. I belong to eWomen which is a networking organization dedicated to "the unique way in which women do business". But I have never seen an organization belittle women in this way in order to make a sale off them. While helping women is definitely a good goal, and "women in business" is a great target market for marketing services, there are much better ways of empowering women than to assume they can`t handle themselves just because they are women. And the whole bit about how women want it all for free? This is totally not my experience at all. All the women I have worked with have been generous and kind.

Now if I`m wrong, and someone else has another opinion on this, please feel free to let me know. Otherwise, I`m going to step off my soap box now.

Hmmmmm.... in 3.5 years on ryze I`ve never had a single woman say that I was belittling her.  Not once.  Now that doesn`t mean that every woman is my ideal customer.  But hey - if you`ve got brass cahunas - knock yourself out.  Not many women grow up with a structural engineer for a mom.  So, I wrote the book I needed to read myself.  Now if you`re done belittling me...

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-free Marketing"

PS:  Curious if marketing mentoring will work for you? Check out how
mentoring helped one woman increase sales 170% in just three short weeks.
Go to http://www.ryze.com/posttopic.php?topicid=820690&confid= 2376 then
connect with me so you can feel more happy and make more money, too.

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

Enh...this is like that post about whether or not talking money is "taboo." Bottom line, if you`re running a business, you expect to get paid. You don`t just give away your product. It might be expertise or widgets, you`ve still got a product to sell. "Sell" means get money for it.

I don`t think this is a "ladies" topic, it`s general to anyone starting a business. So I suppose I could see a way for folks to take offense at such a topic being highlighted for women, but so what? Suze Orman does the same, but I find her approach to finances a lot easier to handle than many other "gurus."

Then again, I just mostly ignore anyone who plays on the Men are Stupid, Men are Brutes, and Men Need Directions theme. Does that mean there isn`t a large market out there based on the premises? Nope. There`s a hyooooge market out there! :-)

I`m not belittling you. I`m encouraging you and challenging you to write better marketing material for yourself. I don`t think you are belittling your audience. I just think that your message that you have been posting here, as I said, contributes to the stereotypes. There are probably many women who find value in what you say ... but what if you could take that message to entirely new level by uplifting women instead of pointing out their faults?

Do you see the difference?
"Buy my book because you are a woman and women suck at marketing."
"Buy my book because I have created easy-to-use marketing strategies that come from a woman`s point of view."
"Buy my book because I am a woman that has had a lot of success marketing products my way, and I would like to share my secrets with you."

I`m also going to encourage you to edit your post because the links to Ryze only work if you are a member with a login there.

What`s ironic are the studies apparently showing that very low levels of testosterone in women are responsible for loss of libido and depression. So would it be fair to suggest that women have a choice between some testosterone and orgasms, or no testosterone but a better market position?

Oh my gawd I just spit out my tea. Craig!

I think you have just solved the problems of the universe! Well, I did say that I wanted to play in the NFL, right? Maybe I have all kinds of testosterone.

BACK TO THE TOPIC ...

I am going to give a great example. I met a woman recently. Her name is Elinor Stutz, and she runs a sales training company called Smooth Sale. She targets this same kind of market with her book, Nice Girls DO Get the Sale. On the page for the book (follow the link), she employs some brilliant and effective marketing towards women. She teaches sales skills to businesswomen, but not by telling them that they are no good in business! What this page does say is that she:
* Is a successful saleswoman.
* Will share her secrets.
* Will teach women "how to use their natural relationship-building skills to close a higher percentage of business, make more sales and negotiate better deals".

So there you go. She has had success in her career, she wants to share that success with you, and she is going to show you how to do it by building on the skills you already have. Positive, positive, positive!

And IMO, it is better to set the tone of your marketing campaign on a postive tone ... vs doing this negative campaigning thing where you are pointing out faults of ours that you are going to solve. The world is negative enough, so let`s not go there!

It reminds me of another woman I met the other day. She was sure that she had a product that would help me lose that post baby weight! Unfortunately she stuck her foot right in her mouth by assuming that I still have post baby weight to lose, that I wanted to lose weight, and that I wanted her to point out that (in her opinion) I needed to lose weight. Needless to say, no sale there!

I have a successful marketing mentoring practise and I`ve mentored over 1,200 people in marketing over the last six years - about 40% men and 60% women.  The differences are astounding - in the approach and attitude towards marketing and selling between the genders. 

It`s not just that it`s coming from a woman`s point of view - the question is why does a woman`s point of view matter?  It`s not about putting bows and daisies on it.  The reason it matters is because a lot of women really have big challenges with marketing and selling.  Look at the statistics with women`s start ups - the numbers in sales are usually much lower for women.  It`s all there in black and white.  Go to a big network marketing conference.  The room is filled with women but the heavy hitters are always the men.  There might be a couple women who have reached the big leagues - but when of 70-80% of the distributors are women?  There`s a big disconnect and I help a lot of women who have challenges with this and don`t know how to bridge the gap.   I get emails and messages daily from women who say, "Thank goodness I found you because I need help.  I suck at marketing and selling."  

These are challenges that you apparently don`t suffer from.  Now, if you have perfect confidence and no problems with this - I salute you.  But I have huge evidence based on my experience and tons of research I`ve done that shows that for a large number of women - this is true.  If you`re not my ideal customer - that`s fine by me.  It obviously doesn`t appeal to you.  Fine.  But why are you trying to get me to turn my marketing message around to suit you - when you`re not my customer?   I don`t remember asking for your advice.  

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing" 

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

Hi Craig:

thanks for your thoughtful post.  The truth is there are some men who have similar challenges - but my extensive research shows that:

a)  when you look at generalities it`s something a lot more women deal with than men

b) traditionally speaking men are generally less likely to ask for help with something that might make them appear to be weak.

From my point of view - that doesn`t make for a strong target market - so I target towards women 40+ where I`m likely to have a larger number who resonate with what I have to say and will connect with me.

I`ve met women who are giving away their services and products in droves because they believe that it will come back to them eventually.  It`s the law of Karma.  And maybe it does - but not always in the form of money.  Why?  There are a whole list of reasons why women do this but it all comes back to the fact that many woman see themselves as being a good woman for giving her time and talents away.  They get that nice, warm, fuzzy feeling - but it doesn`t help `em to pay the bills.  After all go to your local library, hospital, school, place of worship, non-profit agency.  Who are the majority of the adult volunteers?  Women. 

The women who give things away or seriously undercut their prices tell me, "I just want to be nice."  The problem is that in the business world it`s not perceived that way.  The perception is that if you`re giving something away it means you`re brand new (and not as good) or don`t have a lot of customers (and not as good).  They also believe (and I`ve heard this from hundreds of women - I`m not just dreaming it up) that they think it will be easier to market and sell themselves if they`re less expensive.  And, it doesn`t work out that way.  

In business people figure you get what you pay for and so they often run from someone who is way below market rates because they figure they won`t be as good, as professional. etc.   Once in awhile you might run into a gem of a person whose really good at what they do and has great accolades but are charging less than they should because they`ve had some challenge or something happen in their life and it`s like yard sale prices for a little while.  But that`s the exception and not the rule.

Every one of the women I mentor during the time we`re working together ends up increasing her prices.  Sometimes a lot.  And with good marketing strategy she always finds she`s in greater demand not less.  They have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money.

All the best,

Denise Michaels, Author, "Testosterone-Free Marketing"

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com

Here`s an example of the kind of private messages I get.  A lot.  This one just came in this morning.

My name is ______ ______ and I`m the proud owner of _____ Skincare. We`re still taking our baby steps, but I`m ready to move forward - full speed ahead. I`ve read a few of your posts and to be honest, I feel like you`re talking directly to me. Everything you`ve said seems to ring true to me. I have wonderful products and I`m confident about that, but I`m lacking in self confidence. Honestly, I don`t know exactly what my problem is but I do know that I`m holding myself back.

My ultimate goal (at this time) is to be able to quit my full time job and be able to work for myself full time. As I`m sure you know, that`s a huge step. Especially since I`m in the middle of building a house, so I can`t exactly take a pay cut. Another large problem for me is that I am clueless about marketing and advertising. I`m afraid of spending loads of money on things that just won`t work for me. I`ve just recently found Ryze, so I`m trying to learn my way around here. I was intrigued by your post, so I thought I should send you a little message.

Have a great day.

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PS: Does the thought of marketing drive you to chocolate? I`m looking for a very special woman who loves her business but hates selling and marketing. Tell me about your business and your challenges and I`ll tell you how I can help you have more fun, feel more confident and make a lot more money. All my marketing mentoring clients get results. Visit me at http://www.MentoringwithDenise.com