Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Besthealth,

If your going to use Scripture as a reference point I plead with you to remember that the meaning of a text is easily skewed when taken out of context...

    I`m sure you would like the courtesy of accuracy, when someone is attempting to convey thoughts and words that you have spoken or written...
    I will extend that courtesy to you as I hope you will do for me...And may we both have a sense of Awe when we attempt to reiterate the words of Christ...
    Knowing what pornography is, what it`s for, and what it does, in the heart of men, justifies me condemning it with as hard of a blow, as my vocabulary will enable me...Pure and simple, what thinking person can deny that it ignites lust...And Jesus not me, judges men as adulterers when lust is harbored their mind...Matt.5:27-28  Frankly I`m a little suprized that you would take sides with an industry that exploits woman and children...Was there ever a time that you would blush at such a topic, ashamed of how mankind has treated womankind as mere objects?
     Regarding "casting stones," Jesus was exposing hypocritical religious leaders who rigidly held to traditions, while forgetting weighter matters like mercy and forgiveness...
     As I`ve grow in knowledge of Christ and His words in the classroom of life, I`ve become increasingly aware of my mortality and limited understanding of things...I am no mans final arbitor nor do I wish to be...I, like you am a frail creature needing air, food, water and sleep...I dress myself and poop just like any other man...I`m no ones judge but God our Creator is...And He has been kind enough to put a small fragment of His thoughts in writing... And we should, yea, we must get to know it and pass on what it written therein to those who may be ignorant of it`s promises and it`s threats...
    I appreciate your wish for my business success...If you are bringing value through your health services (which I believe you are) then I wish you the same...
    But to any business that is detrimental to the health of mind or body...to any business that profits through the de-valuation of human life, then I hope and pray that it fails utterly...
   



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Tim Szazynski
timshaz@gmail.com
270-312-7234

zenzuu.com/timshaz

http://case-studies.sitesell.com/timshaz.html

Craig,
Regarding morality that "descends from a belief in God," what other kind is there?  The question is "Whose" God, or "who is playing God" at any given time, in any given circumstance, in any given age and culture...Either a Supreme, unchanging Being has standards and requirements that He has put forth to be followed...Or men play God, make up their own rules, decide the legality or illegality of actions and punish or reward accordingly...In some countries despots arbitrarily lay down the law in a Rex Lex fashion...In the US their is a democratic process to elect reps forming the legislature having power to create, amend and ratify Laws...
    Yes Craig, my argument regarding morality originates in God... In fact all my arguments for everything originates and terminates in Him...You`ve heard I`m sure of the Unified Theory or The Theory of Everything...Well, I`ll go on record as saying that it`s not a theory, It`s God my friend...The scriptures teach in the NT that all things are by Him, through Him and to Him...and in another place it says that Jesus Christ holds all things together by the word of His power...God is the cohesion behind all that is...
     I am not advocating restrictions on anything within this Forum, I don`t run it, nor does it represent my name or beliefs in any way...I`m just a guy with a voice like anyone else and when I see a conversation on a topic that stirs me to give or receive then I`ll dive in and get involved...Not much more complicated then that...
     "If" morality is situational, merely cultural and relative then I want to be on the side of those who keep "this" particular virtual geographic space clean of any industry that exploits and extorts...
      You may back and stick up for the pornographic machine but I choose not to...and yes, again without beating around the bush my sense of morality is based and extruded from the life and teachings of Jesus the Christ...
       I`ll end on a question for you Craig...If Morals are truly just the random collection of a cultures tolerances and taboos, then can you ever say with emphatic certainty that "such and such" is Wrong or Evil?
If there are no absolutes and I don`t see how there can be if there is no Absolute Being...Then is cannibalism in Australia just a dietary preference in your eyes?  Or burning living windows on top of their dead husbands an acceptable religious expression just because the Indians believe it so?  And if Darwin is right regarding natural selection and survival of the fittest then was Hitler justified in trying to speed up the process?  It seems like a large number of people collaborated with his idea and were in agreement that it was a good thing?  Was it?  Can you agree with me that it was wrong, sinister and Evil?  And if you do agree on what basis do you come to your conclusion?  
     I`m obviously being a little provocative, with the purpose of forcing and driving you to crystallize your view of things if they haven`t been worked out...If they have I would be interested to know what they are and what you think...

    





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Tim Szazynski
timshaz@gmail.com
270-312-7234

zenzuu.com/timshaz

http://case-studies.sitesell.com/timshaz.html

As I`ve said, a morality is simply a collection of policies, which are like global rules,by which a person (and society) choose to live. Many moralities descend from a religious belief system, but others descend from the governmental organization of a society (i.e., the State). However, morality also can be developed through a reasoned system of thought---a philosophy.

The only universal moral statement I can think of is that "the Good" is that which is life-enhancing. Any other morality would ultimately lead to the elimination of the society, thereby making it a moot point.

We hear about the Golden Rule as being to "do unto others, that which we would have them do unto us." Unfortunately, it`s misquoted and the original is to "not do unto others, that which we would not have them do to us." The "not" statement is more applicable, in that it assume no action with rules. The modern version allows for all sorts of wrong actions, with the only rules being peronal.

Even there, Confucius was the one who initially made the statement. We know that Jesus traveled extensively in Asia, and that`s probably where he heard it. He originally stated it as the "not" statement, it was badly translated.

To the second question in the section I quoted:

I didn`t say that morality is a "random" collection of rules. Some moralities are indeed a collection of cultural taboos and tolerances, but unless they`re organized in some form, it`s not a morality. Modern value systems, being highly disorganized, aren`t a morality. They`re merely a random collection of behaviors.

There are indeed absolutes, and this is the area of philosophy we would call ontology. Any philosophy, religious or otherwise, is based on human language (and, obviously, the capacity to think and reason). So the absolutes are logical absolutes. In Nature (physics) we can`t yet determine if there are absolutes.

Evil is one word, Sin is another. The two reference the nature of human beings and human behavior, respectively. Both are terms, which means they require definition. In a non-religious philosophy, we don`t ordinarily use the term "evil," but I take your meaning.

The older I get, while holding that there is indeed a "larger" component of consciousness than simply what we know when we`re awake and walking around, the more I believe that life is like a collection of novels---stories. Hitler didn`t consider himself evil, nor did the population who put him into power. He was emphatically against the life of many human beings, which would make him "not good," but I think we have to consider a great deal more than his life.

Think about the overall evolution of human consciousness, and where we would be had there been no Hitler? How much of today`s tolerance and global awareness is a result of first having witnessed the catastrophic results of national morality gone haywire? Without Hitler we wouldn`t have had the Nuremberg trials, from which we (as a human race) decided that "just following orders" is not an excuse for crimes against humanity.

As with any dramatic story, we need heroes and villains, triumph and sorrow, disaster and relief. All things are interwoven, moving us towards a wider, or evolved, or higher, or "something" consciousness. To say that people or actions are evil is to say they`re really bad, in a religious connotation. But it`s still only we humans with our very limited abilities making that statement.

If you accept a soul, along with a dimension (or kingdom) of God, then you also accept that we have no access to that dimension in any immediate way. We have no idea what`s really going on in that context. So our logical absolutes are useful ways to help us think, but they can`t be applied in any other way than logically.

The bottom line is that a joyful life, filled with humor, honor, harmony, goodwill, and hope is more fun to live than a desperate or fearful life. Because the world is the way it is, we sometimes have to defend our freedom and right to be happy, which means there has to be violence in some cases. Is violence in and of itself evil? I can think of many examples where it isn`t.

I`ve concluded that perhaps a close second in moral absolutes is that the use of force should be only a last resort. By "force," I include both physical and psychological force. And to that end, if someone forcibly infringes on my enjoyment of the forums, then they are wrong (not evil, just wrong).

Craig,
I neither have the time, will or energy to debate back and forth over the topic of good vs. evil...
Here are my final thoughts...
God is God and we are not...He is autonomous and we are dependent...He made us and sustains us...
Believing in Him doesn`t cause Him to be nor does disbelieving in Him cause Him to cease...He simply---IS...Or when He spoke of Himself in the first person He said, "I am that I am."
What He says simply---IS...What He deems beautiful and good---IS...
What He determines is bad, sinful, evil or reprehensible and worthy of punishment also---IS...
Since He is God and we are but finite, puny little mortal beings... Created from dirt and back to dirt returning, I will daily remind myself and my fellow man that it behooves us to take serious His thoughts...
We must strugle with all the wit we can muster and at the same time beg Him to donate enlightenment...
We are fools when you, me or anyone else esteem the gray matter between our ears as more significant then the thoughts of the Almighty...
Jesus said we must humble ourselves and become as little children if we would see invisible things... the things that even the most so called wise of this world are blind and deaf to...
Perhaps not to many others but to me all that you have written is indicative of the the powerless, answerless, vacuous reasonings of dead men...
I will continue to follow and urge others to follow Him who rose from the dead, is currently alive  and will return to this planet just as He departed...Physically, with many eyes witnessing the event...
Craig, I hope you come to know Christ for who He really is before the time comes when you lose control of your faculties and you face the grave and the finality of it all...
In that day you most certainly will see the futility and utter uselessness of all the words of men and the delusions that we hold of ourselves...
I hope that experience happens in your life while you still have life to live...
If you or anyone reading this words would care to discuss what I`ve written my number is below...But in case you haven`t noticed---Christ is my presupposition, premise and conclusion in all my reckoning...I believe that all of History will one day prove to be the unfolding of His-story...So if you don`t want to hear more about Jesus then you probably won`t want to hear what I have to say...My passion and aim is to spread the fame of the Name---Jesus.





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Tim Szazynski
timshaz@gmail.com
270-312-7234

zenzuu.com/timshaz

http://case-studies.sitesell.com/timshaz.html

Alright, as you said, interesting discussion. The bottom line is that a discussion on good, evil, business, pornography, virtue, ethics, or anything else, is exactly that: a discussion. To discuss murder is one thing; to go out and commit a murder is entirely different.

So to answer your initial question, I see no reason why a discussion about a particular business idea automatically results in either actions or consequences. In fact, that`s the main problem these days, where people discuss a business idea then never put it into action.

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Chris Miller, a simple taco maker:
The Tiger Taco home in the U.S.A.
Tiger Tacos in Australia
Tiger Tacos in the United Kingdom

For whatever its worth, and in the interest of adding some additional context to this discussion... I personally find overt fundamentalist Christian preaching deeply offensive, vastly more offensive than any discussion of pornography, due to my experiences being raised in the Assemblies of God. How would the Christians on this board feel if I questioned whether religious talk was valid and appropriate? If I asserted that my own feelings on the matter should override everyone else`s because, you know, I`m correct and right and that`s all there is to it.

Offense is totally subjective — if you don`t like discussions about porn-related businesses, don`t read them. But realize that your personal offense is not a sufficient measure of what should or should not be allowed in a free society.

—paula