Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Wilfred, I am not sure what you mean by a good position but I think we should have some clarity.

1. The algo`s the search engines use are proprietary so none of us know the details. We can only speak anecodtaly.

2. You have a lousy position. When I searched your meta tags (truck stop, big rig truck, truck accessories, show truck accessories, online gift store, professional driver) you are coming up in the 30`s with MSN and worse with Google and Yahoo.

3. I sincerely doubt "their algorithm will
figure out that you`ve got regular changes going on" A mathmatical formula is unlikely to develop an affinity for a site because it is being updated regularly.

Wilfred thinks he has a good position because when someone types in his name, he comes up first. The reality is if visitors do not know his name they are very unlikely to find Wilfred.

I just started a little tiny community site, www.redflanneltown.com. We went live with it last week and, guest what? If you Google "Red Flannel Town" we come up first. This is because of the unique name. The same is true for Wilfred`s site. He has an unusual name and if you google it, of course he comes up first. It is an exact match. But what good is that position if the visitor does not already know his name???? If he knows the name he will not be searching.

In reading through Wilfreds theoretically hidden meta tags (right click disabled why?) it is really not clear to me what market he is even going after.

I am not wanting to be cranky or mean, but there needs to be some reality injected into this conversation.

Do the sponsored search, do the updates just because it is a good thing to do, do press releases and write articles and get linked.

People like to think position is hugely important. With literally billions of websites you are going to have to work your tail off for very little results. Do the stuff above, do local marketing, do get your name out there.

 

I don`t normally get like this, but I have to make a few points, as you said some things I think you meant toward me, not TJG.

Yes, the algorithms are proprietary.  However, I take issue with "it`s all anecdotal."  I know lots of people who get good results for clients and it`s their job to analyze what seems to work and what doesn`t... they write reports, they run tests - so it`s not really anecdotal, it`s based off of a procedure with controls, comparisons, etc. and therefore is scientific. 

I said that my comments are anecdotal because I did not keep records, I did not chart it, I did not run a control or compare, it`s what seems to happen from my viewpoint.

I also fear you don`t understand algorithms.  You can easily write a programmed formula along the lines of "if site A changes B times over C period, then refresh cache every X period."  After all, at the end of the day, the parameters for computers are created and adjusted by people (for instance, there is alot of controversy about digg.com changing their algorithm.  It`s mathematics set in motion by people).

There is a point about relative matching I understand.  It`s about getting your site to come up when X product is searched for online, and for awhile, ads do help because they will help build initial clientele that will hopefully link to you and improve your ranking.

However, I won`t debate the rankings of someone elses` site as I feel it is professionally inappropriate without a full analysis.

And yes, I know Google states that they don`t give preferences, and believe all major engines do.  I also believe there is no intentional human preference.  However, if you submit a URL, it is going to be put directly into the system for verification.  That automatically gives that URL presence in their database, and hence, voila, it updates because it needs to be checked. 


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"It`s not work, it`s network!"

Portage Media Solutions
http://www.portagemedia.com
My Blog: http://www.interactivemediatips.com

First of all ... the name is TJ Graff.  Wilfred T. Grenfield is the author of the quote I use in my signature. (Get it right)

Secondly,you stated you think  GoTruckStop.com has lousy rankings at Google and Yahoo?

Let`s take a look ...

Google: 

Search Term: big rig accessories

Results: 1,140,000

Ranking: #2

 

Search Term: big rig gifts

Results: 1,910,000

Ranking: #1

 

Search Term: big trucking 

Results: 5,730,000

Ranking: # 3

 

Search Term: truck stop accessories

Results: 5,650,000

Ranking: # 1

 

Search Term: big rig truck accessories

Results: 326,000

Ranking:  # 4

 

Search Term: trucking gifts

Results: 2,550,000

Ranking: # 3

Yahoo:

Search Term: truck driver gifts

Results: 1,650,000

Ranking: #5

 

Search Term: truck stop 

Results: 33,900,000

Ranking: #18

 

Search Term: big truck accessories

Results: 7,980,000

Ranking: #  9

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Rather than attempting to discredit a fellow member`s success .. as you have tried to do in your feable attempt here ... why not celabrate the fact that a fellow member has found success in SEO ... without having to spend a large amount of money of search engine submissions.

I`m trying to explain to  folks that the success of GoTruckStop.com in the search engines is primarily due to the data base and shopping cart design, as well as the use of the javascript that we use. (I already talked about that in a previous thread.)

So Mr. Robentcorp, I challenge you to now dispute these facts. And yes, my customers search on these terms as well as others.

I direct my comments to reality, not to any person. They are intended to clarify not to put down.

I think I can stand by my view that the algo`s are more anecdotal than anything. Yes, we know certain things impact position. However, without the equation you cannot know the answer. A large part of the SEO industry unethically thrives in the confusion.

Your comments about what is professionally appropriate is off base. Sorry to be direct, but in this case the advice giver was completely and obviously wrong. Someone misled him and he was passing it on.

I can tell you from experience with a client who spends well more than $1000 a month on sponsored search in a category with only about 4 other companies  doing SS that his position has never been helped by Google. In fact his position is much better with both MSN and Yahoo. Google has been nothing but a huge pain.

I am not sure how helpful or useful it is to assume Google is, has been, and contines to lie to people regarding position in writing on their site. That secret would have gotten out by now by some disaffected employee.

Do sponsored search it gets you noticed in a few hours. SEO is, when evaluation in terms of time, effort and expense, a waste of time. Do real advertising and stop chasing position.

 

 

Challenge accepted.

Let`s go further into your traffic....

First tool will tell you how many searches for specific search terms on Yahoo.

http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/

Big truck accessories

Searches done in July 2006
Count	Search Term
305	accessory big rig
167	accessory big rig truck
63	accessory big chrome rig

Okay so you are using the wrong terms here, but even the right term gets you very little traffic. No cash here my friend.

Big Rig Gifts does not even register. Do you really think people are searching those terms????? No cash here my friend.

Searches done in July 2006
Count	Search Term
55	big dawg trucking
32	big dog trucking
28	big trucking
26	big bear trucking

You are best off adding "dawg" to get the extra 23 visitors.....No cash here.

truck stop accessories does not register.

Ditto trucking gifts

Anyone confused yet?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Wilfred your confusion about search results is demonstrated in that you feel the number of results somehow has relevance to anything....

Here are some search results with Google:

red pickles -4,160,000

broke down truck - 7,840,000

hello there- 90,400,000

i`m hungry- 24, 800,000

Now Wilfred what we need you to share is how you started your business, what you have done to really promote your business. Your numbers do not work. Tell the rest of the story of what you did to get this off the ground.

This is what the new jacks need to hear.

 

 

Apparently I hit a nerve with Mr. GoTruckStop....He does not answer here with logic, but in private messages with name calling.

Mr. Go, I do not doubt you do well...I can just see that you are terribly misinformed. I am certain if you dared to tell the rest of your story and you are honest about your success that we will find a better story of greater value to everyone.

 

 

I don`t spend as much time chasing the search engines as I should. I find that the algo`s change once most people figure them out... So then you have to start over. I realize there are some very good professionals out there that do this for a living, and I say, "more power to them."

As for me, I am online. I mostly market locally. I market online as a secondary effect. I have most of my sales from local connections... but have had several sales farther away, but still in the states.

So although I find SEO important, I cannot (maybe I`m not smart enough) hunt the perfect rank on a daily basis. I concentrate on great customer service and meeting people in person that may be interested in my products.

I think this works, but I do listen to the "latest" SEO techniques. However, I may not deploy them all.

Good? Bad? Who knows... Probably bad if I rely on SEO to make money.

Just my 2¢


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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

Then I guess you need to inform all the businesses spending money for AdWords at Google for each of the search terms I listed that they are wasting their money ... since you are the know-it-all here.

As I stated before ... these are some of search terms that my customers are using. Since I`ve been involved in trucking for over 15 years .. I might have some knowledge as to how folks within the trucking industry think.

Again, as for me ... I`m off to Afghanistan in a few weeks. The rest of you folks can deal with Mr. Whatshisname Know-it-All.

I am glad that you are at least consistent in being off point as you wildly misinform people in an effort to show me to be uninformed.

Obviously it is very smart to use sponsored search (SS) for obscure terms.If you are one of only a few businesses using SS for a particular obscure term you are a big winner, consider this:

1. If you have 100 search terms with that are obscure and get only 100 seaches a month then you have gotten 10,000 impressions in that month. Imagine doing this by the hundreds, or thousands.

2. There is nothing lost by hitting fairly obscure search terms. If you pay per click and there are no clicks there is no cost!

3. The cost per click will be way, way, way low because there will be so few advertisers chasing those search terms. Amazon does this by the thousands. (search Red Rover and see)

And let`s look at this fact....The term I thought would get the most attention was "truck stop accessories" there are only about 8 people doing sponsored search. Only 12 for the words "truck stop"  Not exacly a flood of advertisers there my friend.

Still it would be smart for people to use those terms if only because the cost per click would be so low.

I guess you will have to take back your calling me an idiot in your private message. Numbers don`t lie Wilfred.

 

 

 

 Ahhh Mr. Wilcox is right on the mark. Is that great or what?

Too many SEO people make this out to be so important. Mr. W is right! Do the local stuff! My client www.dublinstore.com in the middle of no where sells all over the country, but they built their fantastic business one customer at a time in puny town Michigan.

It is word of mouth and the website backs up the word of mouth! They do not go all the way with the site, but that does not stop people from buying all year long.