Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

I`d like to get a conversation going on the area of search marketing.

So let`s hear it - got any burning questions about search optimization or search advertising?  Experts abound in this area, I`ll be glad to chime in as much as possible, so if there`s something that confuses you in the realm of search marketing or there`s a topic you`d like to cover, let`s have at it - this is what the community is all about!


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chuck fuller

As I designed my pages, I tried concentrating on keeping the
verbiage short and on topic. I also decided I needed to choose
a search word to describe my business. Once I decided
“earthborn & handmade” items will make up the bulk of my
merchandise, I went back and rewrote (I still do daily) my pages
to include at least a mention of earthborn, handmade, or both.

To be honest the hard part was coming up with that one word
people would use to recognize, or find, my website. I provide
different kinds of merchandise, at different prices, and different
manufactures. I don`t think choosing a keyword like pottery
would be effective, or even broad enough. This week Pottery is
a big seller. Next week it could be Flower replicas. Anyway,
after all that work, my site still didn`t get high or even close to
high hits from visitors or search engine bots.

Then I went to addme.com (recommended by S.U.N.
participant) and became involved with actively submitting my
site on a monthly basis. Within a very short time my site
increased it`s visitors traffic. I really think it had to do with… um..
I think they call it “Link Popularity.” Too few search engines
knew about me, therefore the big guys never even stopped by
to catalog me.

Now, search earthborn & handmade and you will likely see my
site near the top. That`s a great start as I now have begun using
“earthborn & handmade” almost as a tagline to my business.
On the other hand, if you are looking for pottery and type
something like… “buy pottery bamboo” into the search engine
form, I bet you don`t ever see my site. So I end this post with a
question. How do I get those commonly used keywords to
position my site in the search engine results listing?

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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

I am spending lots of money early in my business marketing budget for Google and Yahoo adwords, focusing on Keyword usage ( not to narrow, not to broad) to maximize my CPC and conversion rates. I just added code to my site to track conversion rates through Google analyitics(sp) and my Web Company has some admin tools that I can track IP addresss, time on the site, number of visits, repeat visits etc... I am still in search of the magic recipe to get maximum visits at lowest CPC and maximize purchases... it has to be tracked regulary ( I look at it daily, sometimes multiple times, and make adjustments). Generally I am pleased. But still looking for the secret formula to maximize my Keywords and customer purchases.. as a novice I am coming along pretty well, I think. I listened to your radio show on using KeyWords ( a Marketing expert out of Chicago as I remember), I also took a course on Internet Marketing, link popularity ( how to track).. still learning and hope to learn more..Would be interested in anyones comments on this.

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Tim McLaughlin
PetsStock
http://www.petsstock.com
Where your Pets Buy Stuff !
Internet Supplier of Quality Pet Supplies for Dogs and Cats

How do I get those commonly used keywords to
position my site in the search engine results listing?

Vincent - thanks for posing your question to the community, it sounds like you`re taking some great first steps. 

This is a pretty vast subject area, and frankly I quickly noted a list of things that would need to be addressed, but let`s start at the top.

First, you have emphasized `earthborn handmade` on your home page, and it does rank well for that phrase - the question is whether or not that`s a worthwhile keyword.  There are a number of free ways to check on the popularity of a keyword, such as using Yahoo`s keyword tool:

http://inventory.overture.com/d/searchinventory/suggestion/

And you can look at the competition for the keyword as well, simply search for it in Google.  For your particular phrase, there are no suggestions from Yahoo, and a mere 693 sites competing in Google.

Bottom line is that it`s not highly trafficked, and ranking highly for such a keyword may put you at the top of the search results, but if no one ever uses it you won`t be seeing any traffic from it.

Generally your home page is limited, in that it`s one page, leaving you the opportunity to optimize for just one or two keyword phrases.  You certainly don`t want to neglect it, but it`s just one small piece of the overall puzzle.  But as it`s the starting point of your site, let`s scratch the surface with some suggestions there:

• Select one to two key phrases with measurable traffic, and optimize the page for those - use them in the title and content on your page
• Remove the text about searching for that key phrase on search engines to find you again
• While I understand something like `pottery` may not be perfect for you, you do need to select more descriptive and trafficked keywords that are going to generate actual visits for you - only you can determine what best describes your business, but I`d encourage you to use tools like the Yahoo suggestion tool, compare it to the number of competing sites, and try to find phrases in the sweet spot - real traffic and less competition
• Within the code on your homepage there is actual text that is commented-out (legitimate code use, to identify sections of code, is okay); that can be construed as spam to a search engine, as it doesn`t appear on your visible page, but can be picked up by a search engine spider - remove it or make it visible.

There are a lot more things we can discuss in relation to your site - as you alluded to, your site is not getting fully indexed right now (those great product pages are practically invisible!), which is a big problem, and you`re lacking in the other half of the optimization equation, which is inbound links to your site - but I don`t want to go on forever - so hit on these first points and come on back to update us.  We can definitely keep this conversation going.


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chuck fuller

I`m so glad to see someone start this thread!  I recently opened a Sponsored Ad account on Yahoo and found wading through the how-tos to be pretty difficult.  I know a bit about SEO, keywords and website rankings, but understanding the keyword selection and bidding process was very hard at first.  (I want to understand this much better before getting into Google`s Ad Words!)  

I used the Overture tool to find my keyword phrases and selected 6 for starters.  That wasn`t too hard.  But when it came time to select bid amounts it took me a long time to come up with a strategy.  Some phrases were simply too expensive for me to bid near the top, but I still tried to stay in the top 50% of bids.  Is there a point where your bid will be so low relative to the highest that it really isn`t worth making a bid at all?   And, since my business is seasonal (tourism in New York City) will the bid prices also be seasonal?  Should I expect them to increase as Summer and the busy tourist season gets closer?

And, finally, how accurate is the monthly budget estimate provided by Yahoo or Google?

Thanks in advance for any help.  I really need it!


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Karen
Patriot Tours, Inc.
www.patriottoursnyc.com

Hi Karen - welcome to the community!  Great questions - let me try to tackle all of them without writing an epic novel here:

The answer to the first question is (don`t hate me) it depends!  The great value of search advertising is that so much is quantifiable - and that means you can test it.  I think you`ll generally find that if you ad drops below a certain level, you`re going to have a tough time generating impressions/clicks at all.  But as long as you can generate some traffic from a keyword, you can then do the real heavy lifting and determine whether or not traffic from that keyword is really of value - it will all come down to a few factors - a) what is the cost of that click, b) does the visitor convert (you define that), and c) what is the value of that conversion.  Combining those three factors is what will tell you the return on your investment in that click.  As you track it, you can then shift your spending to the highest ROI terms.

That`s a bit of a ten second simplification, but it gets at the root of what you`re looking to find - so test, test, and test again.

You will definitely see seasonality in search phrases and costs - Christmas is the most obvious example, but it`s just as applicable for the summer tourist season.  Expect competition for keyword and the costs to rise at peak times of year.  That opens up off-season possibilities of course, when costs are lower - for example, form relationships (newsletter signups, etc.) with customers when they may not be in that mindset, in anticipation of the peak season.

As for the monthly budget estimates, both Google and Yahoo will tell you that while there will be some variability day to day or week to week, in the end you (probably) should not spend more than the budget allotment you set.

One last thing - I wanted to point out that there are significant differences in the way Yahoo and Google rank ads in their systems.  Yahoo`s is a pure bidding system - you outbid a competitor, you rank higher than them.  Google uses a more complex system, which combines you maximum `bid` (willingness to pay), and the performance of your ad in the system.  So if you have a highly relevant and appealing ad that generates a higher clickthrough rate, you may find your ad elevated above others who are willing to pay more.  Something to keep in mind.


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chuck fuller

Thanks so much for the response.  I appreciate the recommendations.  It`s so much better than sitting here feeling like I`m lost and poking my way through the forest!  Thanks especially for the info about Yahoo vs Google.  I didn`t know they ranked sponsored listings differently.  But now that I think of it, it shouldn`t surprise me since they use different criterea to rank search results.




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Karen
Patriot Tours, Inc.
www.patriottoursnyc.com

Continuing on the ElusiveTreasures site, another thing that stands out and can provide a lesson for everyone on good search optimization is effective use of the <title> tag on your pages.  This tag represents the visible text you`ll see at the very top of your browser when a web page loads, and this text can play a significant role in the ranking for your site.

Additionally, it is used in the search engine results page when your site is listed - so it is imperative that you create distinct and relevant titles for every page on your site.  Using the ElusiveTreasures example, from the homepage, navigate to `Home, Office & Garden` > `Furniture` > `Egyptian Table`.

This product page features a single item, the Egyptian Table; however the title of the product page is the same as almost every other page on the site, and simply contains the company name.

By using the product name as the title of the page, i.e. `Egyptian Table`, this page can be more accurately described for the user, whether they`re accessing the page directly or viewing it in a search results page, and increases the likelihood that this specific page will rank for the keyword "egyptian table", which actually has a decent amount of traffic.  Chances are if you rank highly for it and point searchers to a page like this, dedicated to an Egyptian table, you might just see a few conversions (sales) out of it, which is what it`s all about.


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chuck fuller

As per the current status of Search Engine Marketing, PPC is laced with some serious flaws. There are several problems associated with PPC, and it can really upset you

The best opportunity for any new company is to optimize website on natural search engine rankings. Although PPC Search Marketing plays an important part, but I would personally prefer to use PPC Marketing for keywords carrying minuscule per click cost on PPC.

David

David - your linked text is in a white font, causing it to appear invisible on the page. I`ve removed it, as I couldn`t find a means to make the text visible, but in the future please don`t cloak links.  Thanks


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chuck fuller