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Ellay

posts: 73

Apr 21, 2006 10:01 AM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Ya know, I had the same questions. I want a good looking web site but these prices are a bit outrageous....esp for a start up. I have excellent web experience, I just have a hell of a lot of problems with these sites that i can build my own site.....it doesn`t look good enougn but when I think about what it will cost...for just a few pages (based on current needs), I can`t afford it...but a website can hurt or help a business so what do I do?

I still don`t know. I am just winging it. I still may sign up for a design-your-own-site package AGAIN although I hated it....and I will probably hate it again....or I will find a student that needs the experience....I have about $100 to spend!!!! LOL!!



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www.EllayWestConcepts.net Ellay West Concepts (Freelance Commercial Writer)
iouone2

posts: 1185

Apr 21, 2006 12:11 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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My experience has been completely different than the ones
mentioned thus far. Maybe I don`t understand the question well
enough, hopefully I do. I have re-written this about 4 times
trying to keep it short and full of useful information. I hope this is
short enough, yet containing the information.

When I started my online retail store, I had less than a shoe-
string as my budget. I truly felt (being a graphic designer by
trade) $500 would be a fair price for connecting the shopping
cart and secure transaction components to my previously
designed site. I designed the site in advance (just a few pages)
to use as examples to the businesses I was about to contact.

Much to my surprise, $500 is possible, but you end up with so
many mismatched components that in my opinion, it becomes
more work to manage and reliability becomes a problem. If
your site is not always running well, your potential and true
customers will go somewhere else… Maybe your competitors.

In my opinion, if you`re spending your day making sure your
system works (secure, functional, good presentation) you are
NOT spending your day making advancements in any other
area such as marketing, product procurement, better design,
creating partnerships with other businesses, and many other
things. What I am saying is, your energy is worth more money
than you think. The less time you spend building a business,
the more time you can invest in navigating the business` future.

Back to the main point. In business, you must trust someone,
but cannot become dependant on anyone. (that is difficult in
itself) We are all trying to increase profits, some do it by
convincing you they are your best option, when they may not
be. Something I have said for as long as I can remember
(maybe my teens), “People want IT (whatever the product or
service is) for one dollar. The people who have IT, wish to sell
IT for one million dollars. Your job, as a business owner, is to
negotiate the best value for your needs, or usage.

One Solution for Gaining Objective Cost Comparisons
When I began soliciting proposals for my situation, I wrote a
proposal of my own. My proposal stated everything I wanted.
Some sentences were not as well defined as others. That`s
because of the “lingo” I didn`t understand so clearly. But
certainly the main point of my plan was typed and emailed or
handed to a few businesses offering the services or
merchandise I wanted. I personally pick only three businesses I
felt comfortable, by way of their brand or ads I have heard
(advertising works) or even recommendations.

After providing my “request for a proposal” I began getting great
information back. Including information I should have included,
but didn`t know enough to include them when writing the first
“request for a proposal.” Each time I sent my “request for a
proposal” to a new business, I would update it`s content to
reflect everything I wanted. Starting with three businesses, my
solicitation of the “request for a proposal” document spread to
other businesses throughout a two month period. I also told
each business I would be ready to move forward in 60 days.

This gives time to allow businesses I didn`t know about in the
beginning to submit a bid, as well as negotiate with businesses
I have been in contact with. Eventually, I found the business I
wanted to work with. Now (while business option two was still
in a holding pattern) I negotiated what parts of their proposal I
felt I wanted or needed.

Eventually, it was possible to negotiate a financial agreement
which was less than half the original price. The pleasant
conversations and straight forward talking with the business
representative created trust with one another as well as clearly
defined my goal. They were happy to assist me with my goals.
It`s their job.

Just think like this. Everything is negotiable as long as you are
able to express what you can afford, as well as what you want.
The businesses you use to grow your business ideas are never
your partner… but they sure feel like it. Treat each other fairly.
But always be aware that they do not work for you.

One last thing, expectations kill otherwise great experiences. If I
expect to receive a salmon when I order food from a restaurant,
but receive trout I will not be so happy. But if the waitress would
tell me salmon is not available today, but provides alternatives,
I am likely to leave the restaurant feeling satisfied. Even though
it was not what I wanted to order at the time. Keep expectations
clear, so you and your team members can succeed.

Sorry it`s such long post.

-------------------------

Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words
Nuevolution

posts: 1223

Apr 21, 2006 2:13 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Ok, I see where you guys are coming from, in charing the high prices! I forgot you`re in Atlanta GA. You are on the other side of the country,(where perhaps "resources are scares" so of course you can get away with charging so much "It`s like the Old Saying goes, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King" now try pitching that here in California "The mother land of all technology" we have Silicon Valley as our main contender, One your company probably went bankrupt long time ago, or you would had to drop down your prices to perhaps around 3k - 7k, unless you are working with a company that has deep pockets and can afford to dish out 40K; as one of my clients did, other than that it`s small mom and pop shops that need a break "that want to experience the online" thing. Last, isn`t this forum and web site called "Start up Nation?" I am assuming that everyone here is underfunded or are in start up stages of thier business. The last thing they would want to hear is 15K, that number made me want to move to Atlanta GA, and compete in the market.

Now as far as a web site is concerned, you can get a nicely developed web site under 5k, The five steps to having a web site developed are 1. Define your project to your developer up front. ( you will know if he understands your needs with in the first minute, if he doesn`t move along) 2. Have all the content you want on your web site ready [literature wise], 3. have a broad understanding of the lingo [search the web and have questions ready], 4. Ask for a portfolio if the company has one 5. don`t pay for everything up front, have a payment schedule set , incase you don`t like your results you can always leave and ask for your money back.."The Golden rule be part of the project, communicate with the web designer frequently and be available when he is trying to reach you" If you can follow these simple rules you can have a great web site for much less and that looks good, and to your expectations.



-------------------------

Edgar Monroy
Web Developer / Owner / Consultant
When starting your own business the need to "know-how" is greater than money!
http://www.nuevolution.net
calvin

posts: 39

Apr 21, 2006 2:21 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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i think everyone here is getting a bit confused about the costs of hiring an agency vs. hiring freelance help. 

you can certainly build a cost effective site using freelance programmers and designers, but you all you`ll get a live website.  you`ll need to be completely hands on with the day-to-day activities (i.e. updating the site, managing content, etc.)

if you hire an agency, look to spend big bucks.  but along with the big bucks you will get the full service treatment.  the agency (in most cases) will also help you think if ideas to drive traffic to your site, help you manage your site, etc.

i work at an integrated marketing agency with an interactive department.  we build sites for many Fortune 50 companies.  Our sites, cost anywhere from $50-100K.  but along with that... you get the complete full service treatment plus our award-winning creative work..

 

calvin2006-4-21 14:22:22


-------------------------

calvin1214@hotmail.com

Apr 21, 2006 2:25 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Web design and web development are two different business entities altogether.  In Michigan we charge a premium price.  We do it because our customers are getting real expertise.  There are hundreds of designers in the Detroit market, but they don`t design, program and develop custom code.  That is where you will find higher pricing.  Even for start ups.  It is irresponsible and sets a bad precedent to say, because you are a start up I will give away my livelihood dirt cheap.  This is a real consulting opportunity to engage and educate your prospects so they truly know what to budget.  Design is only one part.  Recurring costs, like maintenace and hosting and upgrades shoiuld be a continual factor as well. Besides, if you call yourself a consultant, and you are going to chastise someone for being honest about their business practices and giving good advice, spell correctly and use proper grammer.

-------------------------

Regards,
Larry@InetSolution.com
Apr 21, 2006 2:28 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Hi Calvin.  Does you agency develop in house or mark it up through outsourcing?

Call me .

Larry Z.
InetSolution
586-726-9490 x 205


-------------------------

Regards,
Larry@InetSolution.com
calvin

posts: 39

Apr 21, 2006 2:36 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
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Hi Calvin.  Does you agency develop in house or mark it up through outsourcing?

Call me .

Larry Z.
InetSolution
586-726-9490 x 205

Larry - most of our front-end & back-end development is done in-house.  the only thing we don`t do is host.



-------------------------

calvin1214@hotmail.com

Nuevolution

posts: 1223

Apr 21, 2006 3:11 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
Points: 0   Vote

Honestly Calvin,
Here is the real deal, what I`ve found easier is creating a fully functional web site for my clients. I`ve created my own content management system where they can update their own web site when ever they want, I only give them rights to manage the content (the text) not the images, just because not everyone has experience with working with images and cropping and scaleing. So that is done in house, Another thing, Hiring a freelancer, is a good idea but how do you know he`s going to be around when you need him. Secondly IZInet, for you to say spell right? you didn`t have to go there.. Keep in mind I am busy and don`t sit with a dictionary next to me to keep you happy. I will try my best to watch my grammer and spelling next time to tickle your tushy, any how, let`s move on to the next subject.



-------------------------

Edgar Monroy
Web Developer / Owner / Consultant
When starting your own business the need to "know-how" is greater than money!
http://www.nuevolution.net
calvin

posts: 39

Apr 21, 2006 3:21 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
Points: 0   Vote

Honestly Calvin,
Here is the real deal, what I`ve found easier is creating a fully functional web site for my clients. I`ve created my own content management system where they can update their own web site when ever they want, I only give them rights to manage the content (the text) not the images, just because not everyone has experience with working with images and cropping and scaleing. So that is done in house, Another thing, Hiring a freelancer, is a good idea but how do you know he`s going to be around when you need him. Secondly IZInet, for you to say spell right? you didn`t have to go there.. Keep in mind I am busy and don`t sit with a dictionary next to me to keep you happy. I will try my best to watch my grammer and spelling next time to tickle your tushy, any how, let`s move on to the next subject.

I am not discounting your services at all Edgar.  I think your type of company definitely provides value to business who are starting up.  Heck, I think I might actually be a future customer :)

As for agencies (like the one I work for), you have to understand that what we provide is an integrated marketing solution for websites.  Everything from ideation to execution.  If you wanted to hire us to strictly build a website only, we are definitely not the place to go with. 

Sorry.. didn`t mean to offend anyone :)



-------------------------

calvin1214@hotmail.com

starpointe

posts: 46

Apr 22, 2006 8:55 PM ET    Quote  Report Abuse
Points: 0   Vote
Here`s what it all boils down to, in my opinion.  You`re a small business, just starting up.  You probably don`t have a lot of money to invest in website development...and that`s okay.  Too many people make the mistake of assuming that a website is like a magazine ad...designed one time and then put out for people to see.

A website is a living breathing member of your business and you need to have a plan of action to implement and utilize it.  Here`s what I recommend.  I`m going to assume that you are like the majority of eEntrepreneurs and want to start testing the waters without developing a business plan first.  (I am not recommending this...it`s just a fact.)  Start looking around for a freelancer or very small development company who can help you to understand how a website will fit into your business.  Remember, you aren`t married to this developer and you will be making changes to your site for years and years.  This is great.  At the right place and time, you`ll have the resources to move to a larger, more comprehensive company. 

If you plan on going the textbook startup route and writing a business plan and getting funding from investors, then it may be better to plan the costs of a larger company into your budget and use them from the getgo.  They obviously have many benefits.

It all boils down to how you personally want to start out.  I`m personally running a website development company that focuses on helping (handholding) small startup businesses enter the online marketplace.  I know it can be scary and there is a lot to learn but it`s nothing you can`t handle.  Just make sure to keep asking questions (like you are already doing) so you can be guided by people who`ve already walked the path.

Ryan


-------------------------

Ryan J StarPointe Marketing Website Development, Hosting & Marketing Consulting
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