Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Hi everyone, I am wrestling with a delima in my mind as I leave my current employer.

I sent a few emails to some of my clients informing them I am leaving the company for a better opportunity. The response I got back from all of them (yes all of them) is where am I going and can they go too.

I feel like I am stealing. I am not a saleman, but production manager at my current company. The clients have come to rely on what I get produced. My response was to them that I would forward my contact info to them as I leave.

Help please, I have a swarm of guilt hanging over my head. The thing is these clients are very big clients.  Thanks in advance.

Years ago, I went through almost exactly the same dilemma, but in the music business. I`d been in Peoria, Nowhere, and was picked up by a national show band. Big stuff, moved to Chicago, on my way.

The band got bigger, but I saw there was rot under the foundations. Big trouble. I`d been with them about 6 months, when I started getting some interest from concert bands. Sure enough, I was down in Iowa with the show band, and got a call for an audition

The calling band was due to go on the road, opening for Black Oak Arkansas. They had at least 1 album (disk) worth of original music, and had just signed with someone...Warner, Capital...can`t remember.

There I was. I`d been picked up out of oblivion by the show band, and felt a huge amount of loyalty to them. But this other band was ready to move, contracted, concerts, the whole thing. I chose to stay with the show band out of loyalty.

Many years later, looking back on it, the net result was that not a single person on the planet gives a damn in the slightest about that loyalty. It got me nothing, the show band broke apart, I left anyway, and the other band went on to do things.

The lesson I learned is complex, and it wasn`t until I became more practiced in philosophy that I understood the reasoning.

A morality is a set of rules. They`re YOUR set of rules as to how to act in your life. Many moralities are common ones, in that many people know and agree with the premises. For instance, religions are a morality with many subscribers, as is the American legal system.

But under it all, YOU choose the morality, and that morality is what causes you to feel guilt, and have a conscience.

You can`t join two separate moralities. If you "feel" that it`s right and proper to let your previous company (not person) keep the fruits of your work and the customers you generated and held, that`s YOUR moral view. Does your employer agree? Have they sat down and explained to you their philosophy of loyalty?

Suppose you don`t tell any of your previous clients where you`re going. Isn`t that just as bad? You`ve engendered trust in YOU, not in some conjoined mish-mash of people. Those customers like your competence, your talent, your personality, and your follow-through.

Are you selling that to the new employer? If so, how will you still have it if you sell it? No, you`re "leasing" your skills to the new employer, just as you leased them to the old one.

The only way this resolves to you keeping quiet is if you signed a "non-compete" contract. Otherwise, if you don`t bring your clients with you, you`re only damaging yourself and nobody else cares one whit about how moral and ethical you`ve been.

I agree with Craig in that you have to be careful, depending on your contract.

I think it is OK to tell people "After such and such years, I have decided to move on to such and such company. I thank you for all the work you have done with me, and if you need to contact someone at Original compay, look here."

You are not saying "Hey, 20% off if you jump ship!!!" You are giving the choice as to whether the people are loyal to you, or to the company. Maybe they would like your info to look you up if the new guy isn`t as good to work with.

Good point, Nikole, about the 20% off thing. It`s cool, I think, to be honest with folks, but not so classy to reach out and try to steal away customers. :-)

Another thing is that most consultants get their start at their original company, and work with clients they met through that company. If consultants do it all the time, why not Aesthetics Consultants?

employees generally have a duty of loyalty - not sure if that means you can`t tell people you are leaving.

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James Lindon, Ph.D. Patent Attorney
Lindon & Lindon, LLC
Cleveland, Ohio
Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, Pharmacy Law, Litigation
[this is not legal advice - provided for discussion only]
Intellectual Property for the Individual and Small Business: Identify, Protect, Enforce, Defend.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
http://www.LindonLaw.com

Yes, when you`re with the company, your loyalties should be with that company. You`ve made a commitment, after all. But I think loyalty ends when you leave. You`re only bound not to reveal the previous company`s secrets or "personal" information (in the sense of information unique to that company`s way of doing business).

If you think about it, it`s like a divorce or breaking off a love relationship. There`s no legal reason you can`t start dating your ex-person`s best friend. But is it classy?

On the other hand, there`s no reason why you can`t invite friends you`ve developed from during the relationship over for a party or discussion after the separation. Right?

This is true unless the company gives you a Non Disclosure Agreement at the time you leave. I remember when I was working with LAM Research, I couldn`t goto KLA Tencor and work for them and disclose any information or how things were done at LAM.
Second of all, well it is true Employee`s loyalty ends when your contract ends with the company you are working for. But, be very careful if you decide to take the customers along with you. If you do take them with you, use that as a collateral to get a higher pay. Don`t just give the new company your customer Database..



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Edgar Monroy
Web Developer / Owner / Consultant
When starting your own business the need to "know-how" is greater than money!
http://www.nuevolution.net

Edgar, would you agree that there`s a contextual difference between accepting contract work from the previous business` customers, and making a disk copy of a customer database?

some cases seem to suggest a difference between competing and preparing to compete.  might have to wait until you are totally gone.  also, non-compete terms must be "reasonable" in most states [whatever that means].  If employment agreement says "if you chop wood and leave, you can`t chop wood for our competitor for 10 years" that probably won`t be enforceable.  If employment agreement says "if you chop wood and leave, you can`t chop wood for our competitor for 10 days" that probably will be enforceable. 

Where do you draw the line?  Who knows.

-------------------------

James Lindon, Ph.D. Patent Attorney
Lindon & Lindon, LLC
Cleveland, Ohio
Patents, Trademarks, Copyrights, Pharmacy Law, Litigation
[this is not legal advice - provided for discussion only]
Intellectual Property for the Individual and Small Business: Identify, Protect, Enforce, Defend.
"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
http://www.LindonLaw.com

CraigL,
Yes there is... See when you are dealing with these customers on a daily or weekly basis, there is more that just a business contact there " you actually create a friendship", and lots of customers that you build that friendship with want to continue doing business with you and with you only" even if you are working for lets say XYZ company. AND NO! I wouldn`t make a copy of the customer`s database.

I would simply tell them that I am moving along, and that they are more than happy to contact me if they wish... But it would be more on a friendship level.
I don`t know Craig, thats a tough situation to be in... I personally would just walk away with nothing....
Better safe than Sorry..



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Edgar Monroy
Web Developer / Owner / Consultant
When starting your own business the need to "know-how" is greater than money!
http://www.nuevolution.net