Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Perhaps we should use Jeff`s idea as a springboard for this project, and as the idea is brainstormed and discussed, we can determine if it`s an appropriate product. It could be that further exploration on this topic leads us to a tangential idea that hasn`t yet been considered. I think that proceeding with this (even as just an initial exercise) might be a good way to develop the process of this effort, if nothing else. Sometimes, just moving forward is a good way to figure things out.

With the privacy/identity theft idea as an initial concept, I`d suggest that we use our wide-ranging community to do some market research. With the multiple perspectives and varying levels of expertise of participating members, we should be able to gather a diverse collection of feedback.

Maybe those members who are interested in the marketing aspect could take some initiative here. If those with such expertise would propose some survey criteria, we could begin to evaluate the viability of the initially proposed product.

From my own personal perspective, I was thinking about collecting anecdotal information, asking "non-geek" types (e.g., average people who have a functional level of computer knowledge) about their privacy/ID theft concerns, what methods they currently use, and what they`d like to have available to deal with these issues. Then I might ask them to complete the phrase, "What someone REALLY needs to come up with is ...." It`s not a particularly sophisticated or scientific approach, but it would be a start.

Ok market research people (or anyone else), here`s your invitation to jump in with your valuable input.

Denise

I believe there is incredible potential for many different sorts of virtual enterprises within the SUN community. This is just the first, but being the first, before we get too far I think it would be beneficial to answer some basic questions. These are a few that come to mind. Surely there`ll be more:

• Is this open to any and all who express an interest?
• If not what is the criteria for inclusion?
• What investment would be required?
• Can equity be earned through investment of time and expertise?
• How is valuation placed on a particular person`s time and expertise?
• What happens when an individuals circumstances change and they cannot or do not wish to be activly involved?
• What is the exit strategy?
  

No doubt each person comes to something like this with a unique perspective. Due to the dispersed locations of the participants I expected this business to have an online emphasis. My hope is that it would not be just another "me too" sort of online business.

I`d like to see something that is unique, even revolutionary. Given the depth of talent available, frankly I`d be disappointed with anything less.



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Yes, this is what I was pondering relative to the thoughts about an ID theft proposition. In such a situation, I would suppose there would be much technical work related to Internet security, hacker-safe programming, and so forth. True, there would also be the business end talents such as marketing, banking, financing, and so forth, but again, that`s a fairly limited set of expertise. It would tend to be a narrow subset of SuN members who would be able to participate.

The other aspect, where such a business would be open to anyone expressing an interest, would then have to be a product where the primary criteria would be simply an active interest in small business and starting/running a small business. :-) That`s a pretty wide field, but it brings in the idea of a database sort of thing.

What`s fascinating about the SuN community is that almost everyone here has the imagination to pretty much turn ANYthing into a business! LOL! I truly suspect, particularly in light of the poop-scoop thread, that if we were to toss up any single product idea, it would *always* develop into a practical application, one way or another.

Although that`s fantastic, in terms of how useful and helpful is this site, it becomes problematic when the entire community comes together to figure out what kind of e-commerce thing could the whole (or a large segment of it) community produce, develop, or be involved with.

In some ways, we could use the slot-machine or gambling casino model. A person makes an initial investment, then enters the overall enterprise, choosing only those areas in which they have expertise or interest. They interact with that particular aspect of the casino for as long as they choose.

Within that "area," they apply skill, expertise, and thought. They win or lose only in that area, not being a part of any profits being generated in any other area. When the person is through, they leave. Either they go to another constrained area, or they leave the casino entirely. At that point, they cash out, taking as profit whatever it was they built in their active area.

If we were to use the analogy to swap SuN with the casino, then what is the overall "product" being made available, or potentially available by the community? As far as I can see, it`s mostly imagination, creative thought, practical application of creativity, and knowledge.

Wait...! Kathy and I were talking, and came up with this: How about a co-op based on a Mall model? Or maybe even on a trade-show model?

Yahoo! focuses on first profit, then a community. This would focus on the community, then profit. It would offer a quality unavailable on the eBay flea-market mentality, but not at the commercial rate of an Amazon store.

Consider: One of the big problems for all small online startups is the transaction processing and checkout counter. On the other hand, places like Amazon stores are most often too expensive to buy into. What if anyone who wanted, joined a sort of mall-type site, possibly separate from the SuN main site, but interconnected?

The Sloan brothers could be the domain and site holders, and the code in the Mall structure would handle the oversight and mall management. They could possibly take a finder`s fee for sold-items, rather than charging a monthly fee.

Each store would come into a category, which would be a problem to figure out. Services and concrete products would be available, and aside from public access, there would also be member discounts.

There could also be "site support," where someone with problems could access an in-house group of IT people. Again, for a fee, but perhaps discounted from the IT or site developer`s standard fee? Dunno, I`m just thinking out loud. (I`m a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist, and have no interest in altruism; I should make that clear.)

So for example, we have people selling hard goods, often on their own site. They would continue that, but have something like a secondary storefront, or "window" in this mall. Because it would be (somehow) standardized, another member could handle certain code, or photographic editing, or site optimization, or whatever else. Maybe for a fee, but discounted?

The site could be something like a mall, or a co-op, or a freelance board, or whatever else. That would be the logistics and details. But this idea, on a conceptual level, would meet both initial criteria. It would allow anyone in the community to get involved, but it would also offer concrete, specific products.

There could be groupings within the mall, where the idea of a Web marketing and advertising agency could come together. Site developers, SEO and SEM people, graphics, and marketing people could join a subset to offer all-in-one advertising to either the open market, or discounted to internal members. Individually, each could maintain their own separate site. But this would be like a diversification, or second line of business and second Web presence.

The big advantage would be having the visibility of the SuN name, reputation, and initial site, which would then bring hundreds of small businesses into an umbrella advertising system?

SuN could handle the transaction processing, which would track all the money, thereby providing the basis for member payouts. That too, would have to be worked out, but the concept would work. It`d have the centralized database of information, which I think is the biggest problem when working out percentages, profits, costs, fees, or whatever else. We`ve got accountants, financial people, and analysts who could resolve that. They might form a Board of Directors, or Management Oversight committee.

There might be a global profit aspect, similar to a corporate share system, but without the option to buy more shares. Say, upon joining, a member would have 1 share. Each member would then get a major percentage of what they sold through the co-op store, but also at the end of the year, a 1-unit share of a designated percentage of global profits. Of course, that proposes a way for the overall mall first to generate income and profit as an entity.

Categorization would first divide by tangible and intangible product (services v. goods). Then, like a regular mall, each main set would divide by related items. So food, clothing, jewelry, decor, and so forth.

Because it`s online, there could be linked connections. So a diverse site with many items could be categorized in one place, but have a presence in other areas, just as an Index in a book works.

This could take advantage of the Internet and linking. Instead of having an actual store, the mall would be comprised of "shingles` people hang out. Search engines often search only the first three pages, so SuN could provide some 3-page templates. The member would then make a name, have a "window," show some products, and have a "doorway" portal.

A click on the store "site" would then move the customer to the members actual, personally run Web site. The next problem would be how to ensure the customer uses the SuN mall checkout after finding the member`s site first through the mall. If the customer finds the site directly, the member wouldn`t pay a finder`s fee back to SuN.

Jeff and all --

I just wanted to say that I have been following everyone`s posts and doing some brainstorming of my own - but have been so darn busy at work (still working now . . .) to contribute.  Life will be less hectic next week, so I will contribute then, I promise!

Linda

This has been tried before. Anybody heard of The Business Experiment? A group of about 800 people joined online to create an online business. Everybody that joined became part owner of the group. It failed. I think one of the biggest reasons for the failure was that out of 800 people, most wern`t pulling their weight. I was one of the 800. I didn`t pull my weight. I, like most people, joined because I was just interested in observing the process. Despite receiving media publicity, The Business Experiment shut down. Too many observers and too few people doing any actual work. I think this type of thing can still work but we would need to learn from the mistakes of The Business Experiment.

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Tino Buntic TradePals - Free Sales Leads

Hi Jeff,

I think this idea is fantastic.  Since I have an HR background I would be happy to assist with how virtual organizations work and how remote people work together, and with any other "people related issues."

Janet

 

I`ve been thinking of re-starting my old business (legal support services - but no temps - wayyyy too stressful) - but expanding my target market to include anyone who needs it, from major corporate offices to the struggling college student with a term paper deadline, job seekers needing resumes, restaurants needing a new menu design, newsletters, etc., etc., etc.  With technology as it is today, my clientele would no longer have to be local.  This mall idea would be perfect for me - and I could be the designated SuN group "document preparer," as well as anything else needed (within my abilities, of course!) 

Whatever we end up with, I am really enthused about being involved!

Linda

I am in.  I think with this highly skilled group we have the combined skill set to create something great.

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Ryan Stemkoski
Zipline Communicatioins
www.gozipline.com

One of the KEY things in any successful venture is to remember a basic and fundamental rule: Life is supposed to be fun! :-)

I`d like to suggest something that`s a new type of business structure, maybe a hybrid arising out of past things. I`d never heard of "The Business Experiment," but I DO know that before The Colonies became the United States, the pilgrims examined both an individual and a socialist structure.

What they found was that people who kept the profits of their own labor succeeded. Those who had to share their profits for no reason other than altruism, failed.

This mall shouldn`t "demand" participation, or even demand activity! With computer technology, it`s easy enough to auto-query a "window owner" if there`s been no activity in, say, six months. If the query returns a blank, allow another 30 days, then generate a second automated query. If that too returns blank, the "window" goes away. No activity probably means no interest, so they just fade away.

On another topic, think about "face painting," common to fairs, parades, and malls. Why not have various areas where such a thing is also available? For instance, we might have the "Web Site Critique" theater. With a few clicks you can read the accumulated, archived postings of numerous critiques, to see how it works.

If you choose, you pay some simple amount, say $10. Who handles that transaction? If this mall were an offshoot of SuN, then the Sloan brothers modified technology would "manage" that process. The client then enters into the "theater," and posts a URL.

Over the next time segment, anyone who`s a part of the venture comes in, posts their thoughts, and leaves. The UserID tracks and associates a posting with the client URL being critiqued. We`ll assume an honor system, where a post actually contains critique info, but accept that a few postings would be off-topic. The client gets a critique, and the ten bucks goes into a pool. (The thread would be archived maybe, after 60 days of zero activity.)

At the end of the year, take away some percentage for maintenance and management, and leave maybe $5 to be divided. Technology could easily divide the $5 by each UserID, then assign whatever`s that sum (only one share per ID, not per post) to the member`s account. Even if that member only had $8 posted to a PayPal account, for example, it`s still enough for a milkshake. The payout might come around November 15th, and could be used for Christmas shopping.

This type of thing focuses on voluntary participation, with timeframes and activity totally up to the member. But with a formal process by which such volunteering would be for payment. (I suppose it wouldn`t actually be volunteering, then...but some word like that.)

The share would be of whatever revenue remained after management fees were taken out, so the "mall" managers would profit. Yet there wouldn`t be a monthly or annual fee to join this venture. The Sloan brothers` risk would be that 100 people would sign up, then there would be zero activity after they`d set into place the transaction and site maintenance protocols. (I doubt there`d be zero participation, though.)

A common model would be a Savings & Loan, or perhaps a Credit Union. But instead of money being the product, it would be goods and services. I suspect the Business Experiment failed because of a cut-and-dried sharing of income, based on that revenue being considered community property. This would be the opposite.

Instead, all revenues would begin with the proposition that they`re totally owned by each member, based on what`s being generated. Only the tracking aspect would be visible to the mall management software. Then, with a fee schedule, different transactions would take a "commission" for the utilization of the mall visibility, promotion, and central marketing.

Another model might be a sort of for-profit Farmer`s Market. Instead of selling only crafts and vegetables, the market would sell the diversity of products available here on SuN.

The biggest problem, at the moment, is I`m not sure how to return a "finder`s fee" to the mall. If a customer finds a member Web site on their own, through Google, the site owner should get all profits from sales. But if the customer finds the site through the mall "window," how does the co-op and management get that fee?

One way might be to use "group buying power" to purchase or "get" a high-quality shopping cart, maybe for a discount. Say that Mastercard handles transaction processing at 3% per transaction. If this co-op could handle the same transactions, with secure site and so forth, but for 1% per transaction, that`d be an incentive to use the mall shopping cart.

The Web folks here, and programmers would probably have much better ideas as to how to track a "click-through" from the mall, and perhaps we`d have to rely on the honor system as well, to a degree, for the kick-back to the co-op for client referrals? I dunno....still thinking out loud here. :-)