Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

Last week I posted about the virtues of Dave Ramsey`s  http://daveramsey.com message of being debt free. I also posted about a seminar the Dave is hosting in December, called EnteLeadership.

I truly thought it would be a great program to go to ... till I received the information and read that for a 3 day seminar ... they are charging over $5,200 !!

I sent Dave the following email ...

[quote]

Dave, as a frequent listener of your show, I`m very dismayed when I
visited your web site to see the "rip-off" programs that you charge for.
Charging to even visit a forum (not as a poster ... but simply as a
"lurker") is a rip-off.

And the latest and greatest rip-off, in my opinion, is charging over $5200
for a 3 day seminar ... when the guest speakers are simply employess of
your very own Lampo Group. Dave, $5000 is a large amount of money for
anyone. But for young start-ups such as myself, its a near impossiblity.

I truly think you may want to re-think your `Christian" values ... and
quit trying to fleece folks out of their hard earned money, to simply line
yours. Is that the Christian way of doing things? I`m not saying to not
charge a reasonable fee for the seminar ... but over $5000 per person ...
times by 150 folks .... is over $750,000 !! The only folks that are going
to be debt free are you and your cronies!!



Thomas (TJ) Graff
Dir. of Sales & Marketing
GoTruckStop.com
480/544/4671
tgraff@gotruckstop.com

[/quote]

It`ll be interesting if I ever receive a response.

can you get an sba loan for that?

I think that sometimes once they get their name known, they get stupid in the head.  Just because I`ve heard of Dave Ramsey before... I still wouldn`t pay NEAR that much for a ticket.  I`ve worked in that field before, and I`ll tell you, much above 150 per ticket, and people start getting fidgitey about losing their money for a conference... mind you 150 a day (so for a three day even, that would be $350) ... I don`t know, I just honestly dont believe that they should TRY to sell that high-priced of a seminar unless they have already held a cheaper/free one, and then possibly even sold you a "start-up kit" of some sort for whatever business they are working in.

I think it`s funny that this story`s pricing aligns so closely with yours TJG...

Personally, I don`t think that a lot of those people who hold these seminars are anywhere near as "for the little guy" as they make themselves out to be!  Want some examples?  How about Russ Whitney to start off the list!  I went to one of his seminars, before everyone knew his name... and they said over and over, they were sorry that he was not able to make it, that he had some other business he had to take care of.  Amazingly, when my wife went out to the bathroom, she ran into none other than... you guessed it -- Russ Whitney!  He was lurking in the hallway, waiting for people to purchase his "enhanced seminar kit" for $5,000!!!  (You would get a three hour seminar with him, and a kit of ten "cheater books", as well as a one year 24/7 800 number to call his help if you had problems!)

Needless to say, my wife came in and told me about it, so I called them out by saying that it was a shame that Mr. Russ Whitney couldn`t make it to the seminar.  (This was at the end of the first one.)  They then smiled and polietely informed us that Mr/ Whitney`s plans had changed, and he was going to be the "highlight" speaker for the upgraded program, and they would be happy to let us pay by credit card, or even call-in for a private loan so we could stay for the following three hours with Mr. Whiteny.  (They wanted $10,000 for three hours for me and my wife!!!)  Needless to say, we politely refused, and walked out laughing about it all the way.

I`ve learned, most of those "well known" people are well known because they have no morals, and their entire marketing focus is simply to bring them more name recognition and their entire program is designed to make them richer, without any care for who`s lives they ruin in the process... caring my butt, they read from cue cards, and are about as realistic in their desire to see you succeed, as the typical car dealer is in trying to save you money on your next car!

Sorry to sound off, but this kind of persn really gets me... giving a bad name to entrepreneurs everywhere due to their greed, and double-talking, multi-standard ideaology.  I don`t like them, and in my opinion, they`ve all but made seminar`s credibility non-existant.

I have been a Dave listener for 6 or 7 yrs, my father-in-law has facilitated local "Financial Peace" courses (as have I on 3 occasions) and been in communication w/ Dave`s Company on a weekly basis.  I also know several people who have met Dave in both professional and private settings.  Through all of this I have heard of Dave acting only with sincerity and integrity. 

His Free radio show has helped hundreds of thousands of people get out of debt and make better financial decisions.  Also, he has previously done thousands of seminars at much lower costs.  So when I heard he was doing an intense seminar in small groups led by himself and his advisors,  I was disapointed that I would not be going myself, but I was not outraged at the price.  I have given Dave no where near $5k or even $500, but so far what I have received has far exceed the value of each dollar and I have no reason to believe this would be any different.

And no, Dave does not accept Credit Cards.

So that we have a reference point here ...

The "grand-daddy" of all personal motivation speakers is ...

Zig Ziglar.

His "Born to Win" 3 day seminar ... which he has been doing for years ...

is only...

$1,495 !!

Now, if Zig can do it for less than $1500, why can`t Dave Ramsey??

As far you feeling that $5,200 is OK to give for a 3 day seminar ... go right ahead. I for one would rather attend Zig`s seminar at $1,500 anyday.

The point is ... is that it appears Dave "I`m debt free ... cause I got your money" Ramsey has lost sight of his true mission ... and is now focusing on getting the big bucks from as many sheep as possible.

Zig Ziglar is the man.  My parents took me to one of his events about 20 yrs. ago.  Even though I was very young and my memory of the occasion is blurry at best... it left an impression I can still feel today.  Zig is defintely a good reference point for this discussion.

Having said that, I would like to add to the reference point just a bit.  I just visited both gentleman`s websites...

Books at Zig`s were $9.99-$21.99... Dave`s $9.99-$24.99 (due to a sale... currently no book is more than $14.99).   Basically a draw.    As far as the seminars...  Zig`s current promotion is a 2 day event(16 hrs) for $1,000 or $62/hr.  Dave`s big gatherings are usually one time events lasting  5 hrs and costing between $29 and $149 (most pay $29).  Even at $149 that is $30 an hour.

These two categories are where 99% of Dave`s "sheep" would spend their money... not at the $5K event.  Which by the way is geared only towards business owners and aspiring entrepreneurs... not Joe Schmoe calling Dave`s show $30,000 in debt.  In fact, you can`t just sign-up, you have to qualify for the event.

I agree this specific event is probably overpriced and will not be attending. I do not agree with the assessment of Dave`s overall values... especially when looking at the overall picture.

Good debate!

well,  I almost gave my two cents again  but held back and deleted it.

I will tell iouone2,  great job on the recognition of the importance of being able to make something good out of a bad situation, 

Mike