Forums: Discussions for entrepreneurs and small business.

On another post that has since been voided, MsEditor made a great comment about Free shipping VS Pay to ship on internet retail sites...

MsEditor… Thank your for your analogy. I think you have finally convinced me to work out some type of free shipping situation when buying on my site. I can’t actually afford doing it on a single item, but maybe I can do a “spend $50” and get free shipping type situation. What would you think about that, as an online shopper?

On the same post, Taylor discussed the positioning a member of SuN has achieved on the search engines...  I spent 2 hours typing a reply, and I think there is value to my reply (not trying to create an argument). I have posed my reply about the lessons learned from the marketing procedures of gotruckstop.com (SuN admins, I understand if you pull this post, since it is part of a discussion you have already posted. But I was a little aggravated that by the time I finished typing the post had been pulled for some reason. I am just in a grumpy mood today I guess. So hopefully one person will read this and get a benefit to the reply, before it`s pulled, if it gets pulled.)

Taylor… I agree, TJG (I think that was the SuN members ID) did accomplish some excellent marketing goals. But I must also say it’s not that difficult to get a two or three word “catch phrase” to rank high in the search engine results. I am talking about your example of using “Truck Stop” as the search term, only to learn TJG’s site is found on the first page. That took work. But it’s not as easy as getting commonly used keywords to provide your site a high ranking.

When I started my online business… I felt I needed a keyword type of phrase, similar to a slogan, in which I could use to… describe the category of products I wanted to sell. I soon began using “Earthborn & Handmade” on all printed material and especially on the web. When I started submitting my site to search engines, I used this phrase first, on all keyword entries. Hey… Do something… type, Earthborn Handmade, into Google or Yahoo. Hell, try any of the search engines. You will find ElusiveTreasures.com to be in the first page… OK, a couple times it’s come up in the second page. For at least a year, it came up the TOP 5 positions. Oh, I didn’t use some special software or technique to accomplish it (TJG has eluded to needing to speak with him privately to “get the answer.” Nothing bad about that, I hear he has helped many people get properly aligned for Internet marketing.). I just read, listened, and applied. You want to know what site beats it a lot now? It’s Startup Nation! Why? Because I am talking about my earthborn & handmade products. I live my job. I love my job.

So. The point isn’t to use your own catch phrase. That’s easy. The problem is, I have had many people not understand the term “earthborn.” And I live in California! (I say that because Californian’s become crazy around Berkeley. Maybe it’s something in the fault lines (earthquake zones). …Anyway, if people are not using “earthborn handmade” as search terms, they won’t find you. But the good part is you (a business owner) have the ability to capitalize on those people using earthborn and handmade

So now I have two choices. Hold onto “earthborn handmade” and spend marketing time educating the public to the meaning of earthborn. Then hoping they start using it to search with… and, along the same vein, take those visitors that do use Earthborn Handmade as a search term and convert a large percentage of them into sales… Or I can learn how to compete with others using the same keywords I would like to use.

My point is, although TJG accomplished some great things in marketing on the internet, he’s not a marketing genius. And to your point that some SuN members may be “out to get” TJG… to that I say, when you’re successful, you create enemies of those with a different point of view. I think TJG has taught us something. It’s reflected in my own search engine results.



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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

Vincent -

Just wanted to add my feedback in regards to your shipping cost comments.  Each year I do approximately 85-90% of my holiday shopping online and the "free shipping" offers do make a difference in which online retailers get my business.

Most often they are offers of free shipping with a purchase of $50-100 dollars.  I do tend to plan my purchases to take advantage of the offers.  In comparison shopping for some items I may only actually be saving a few dollars in the end -  based on the sale prices, special offers, etc. of other e-tailers - but it doesn`t take long for several such "free shipping" purchases to add up to incredible savings.

Just on online shopper`s opinion on your opening statement...

- J.



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Jeff Fisher | Jeff Fisher LogoMotives | Tweet! Tweet!

Online shipping is definitely enough that in many cases it`s worth my while to just buy the thing locally. IF I can find it! More and more, though, the big chain stores are deciding what and when I can buy anything. So I shop online, and accept that the shipping results in a same price. But if I see a shipping deal, and all else is equal, I`ll choose the site with the deal.

Example: I buy a particular supplement that`s only available online. I`ve seen several sites that are $5 less than my place. But where I buy it, the price includes free shipping. When I worked it out, I could save .45-cents or something on the cheaper sites. But the fact that I don`t have to bother with the shipping costs is the main stimulus.

Then there`s the fact that when I buy from my site, without fail, I get the product 2 days later---from the moment I click Enter on the order, regardless of what time in the early morning hours. And that trumps the shipping costs. Fast shipping beats cheap shipping, in my opinion.

Great insight to your buying habits CraigL. Thanks.

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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

Apropos themes and keyword phrases, it seems to me that many people still don`t get the idea behind those phrases.

It isn`t about what you will type into the search engine (SE) that matters. It`s what the REST of the World will type! Think about the term "Truck Stop."

Now think about how many people want to know where`s the closest truck stop---maybe they`re truckers looking for a layover. Maybe they`re looking for a bathroom and have a phone-Internet connection. Maybe they like a certain fast-food menu. But "truck stop" has many connections to daily life.

Then think about "earthborn." Who uses that word in regular conversation?

Adults have access to about 20,000 words in their entire vocabulary, but on a daily basis we use about 3,000 words. Does "earthborn" carry meaning to a typical person? Yes, of course. But does that person pull up the word when they`re looking for a vase, jug, flower, ornament, or decoration? I doubt it.

Maybe an idea would be to find a list of those 3,000 words. But as an example of linguistic papers on the entire Web, here`s a list of the most basic words people tend to use (in English). Who reads papers like this? Writers, editors, language specialists, anthropologists, social psychologists, etc.

Is page-ranking worth devoting enough time to become specialized in the use of language on your own? Or is it something to delegate (outsource)? I guess it depends on the person building the Web site.

just my point GraigL. But isn`t that a sort of niche marketing?

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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

Vince –

 

Though the illustrious LogoMotives (Jeff) is rarely ordinary or typical … I think in this regard he is. And the centrality of free shipping to online buying decisions is backed up by lots of research I’ve seen recently.

 

I think this is driven by the fact that most online buying is of “commodities” – essentially interchangeable products that can be found lots of places (both online and off). So when the Amazons and Targets and Best Buys and you name it slash shipping fees (e.g. I read that Overture.com offered free shipping this holiday season for the first time ever) – now you’ve got to compete not just on price but also on shipping fees and customer service and return policies, etc.

 

This may not be as true for products that are more specialized and have unique elements – as long as the demand is there you might not be subject to all the same competitive restraints. But even for a true boutique – my sense is that at this point it would be smarter to start building at least some of the shipping costs into the price structure and reducing or eliminating separate shipping charges.  

 

mz

 

 

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Michael Zucker - Strategic Planning, Marketing & Communications info@zuckerconsulting.com · www.zuckerconsulting.com “Helping You Over The Hurdles – Keeping You Focused On The Finish Line”

Niche marketing and SEO themes are very different, in my opion, due to their intended targets.

When we`re doing niche marketing, we`re focused on human beans, who have all the strange or normal thought processes of an actual mind. But SEO writing is targeted at a machine using algorithms attempting to mimic how a mind works in only the area of "relevance."

From my own still-new experience in SEO writing, working with a developer who gets really good results, I`m seeing that there`s a basic problem of perception when people try this on their own.

As a writer, I`m particularly concentrating on "who`s reading this?" Is it interesting, does it repeat words of phrases, and so forth. If it repeats, I haul out my thesaurus. Repeated words are a no-no.

 SEO writing turns all that on its ear! Instead, I have to somehow "sneak into" the writing a set of repeating phrases in a rules-based way.

Niche marketing is an active attempt by the site owner to reach out to an audience already searching for specific phrases and words. It`s like going to eBay and using the Search line to type in "painted lead soldiers." The niche is war-reenactment fans.

But SEO writing is a reactive attempt to connect the site product to a "probable set" of words and phrases ANYone would search for. It`s more like that 20 Questions game.

Niche marketing begins with the assumption someone knows what they`re looking for. SEO writing uses the assumption that anyone can type anything, so how can the site capture as many of those words and phrases, yet still show some sort of relevance to all those possibilities.

It`s why having an SEO "theme" is a real art, a serious skill, and not at all something people can casually take a stab at while they`re watching TV.

Most Web sites have at least 10 pages. Each of those pages is a "field" for an SEO theme. The page itself can be a shopping page, browse products, About Us, or whatever...it doesn`t matter. The SEO content on that page, though, should be designed to match a "theme" based on a subset of the top phrases people search for that even remotely resemble the site product.

So to use TJ`s Truck Stop site. There might be a page on the site that sells rubber-squeeze horns. So what? Doesn`t matter! On that site, if one of the high-end keyword phrases is going to be "commercial truck wash" then the SEO content for that particular page will speak to the designated theme for the site. As long as there`s a vague reference in the 400 words to maybe something about how trucks have horns, that`s okay.

Site themes are more than 1, and they`re based on the issue of having a "top 10," or "top 15" key phrases people search within a set of related ideas. So for example, Vincent`s site globally is earthenware art, wood products, and so on. But among those products are flowers, vases, wall hangings, masks, flower pots, and so on. An artistic vase *can be called* a "flower pot," from an SEO perspective.

On one page, say a products page for wall hanings, the product descriptions are all about those hangings. But below that, the SEO content chooses a "theme" for, say, "masks." Overture shows 15 top phrases people search on "masks." The SEO content then captures those according to the rules, and lays a 400-word article down below the last description, where most people wouldn`t bother to scroll. If they did, they`d be mostly bored reading that "area" of the single page.

The tactical target is to get a 400-word article on a page somewhere on the site that repeats the keyword phrase, and any possible combination of the words. Most people gloss over the SEO content on a site, dismissing it as "too many words to be bothered to read." But the search engines read it all...and assign relevance to the overall site.

GraigL... Let me see if I understand you correctly. To set the stage, let’s say I am selling those famous Widgets. My web page should be displaying the Widget (picture), description (preferably less than 300 words, but flowing and with descriptive creative writing style. 400-500 words should be the max), testimonial, specifications (if they must be on the same page).

The keeping in mind your comment about … "too many words to be bothered to read." But the search engines read it all” I should made the beginning the selling points and call to action. Once I pass 400-500 words, by call to action must have worked or, the reader begins to read less important information. But the search engines are still reading it. Let me try it….

(you can skip the mock description and continue reading after the description.)

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Who doesn’t love a beautifully decorated car? And yet, what makes a house a home is not just the furnishings, but the personal details that go into making your home uniquely yours. Interior designers will tell you that one of the most luxurious details you can add to your home is nature’s own miracle, the widget.

“BuyHere.net is the easiest place to buy and return. We do it just because it’s fun! –John Smith, San Francisco, CA”

BuyHere.net is thrilled to offer the best alternative in widget smells- the finest plastic widgets available on the market today! Right now, you can choose the widgets that will freshen your home’s decor and bring the freshness of the outdoors in, making your home a showcase to be admired.
This is an incredible, once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to own and enjoy one of the most sought after widgets, the beautifully shaped Banana widget. 100% hand assembled from Brazilian crushed bananas, this incredibly unique, completely hand assemble, easy use widget brings to mind the wild and most pleasant of Brazilian Jungle smells.
The limited edition Banana widget, assembled completely by hand using old world methods, is a rare gift for the most tasteful. You won’t believe your eyes when you see for yourself, the care and precision used in crafting these remarkable widgets.

Each widget has push button aeration and, although made entirely from bananas, is incredibly durable and long lasting. You will be further delighted to discover that several colors are available. The color will not fade as do most widgets. And there’s no need to worry about how to keep your widget beautiful. Just dunk them in water from time to time to keep away the dust. That’s real beauty and real value!

 Forget cheap, ugly paper widgets! Give up the poorly made pluto widgets! Freshen up your home with this beautiful banana made widgets, found only through BuyHer.com! Your home is your castle, and it should reflect your own personal style. Take a moment right now to browse through our amazing collection of stunning widgets, and enjoy the thrill of infusing your home with the grace and style only our banana widgets can provide. What are you waiting for? Get your widget today.

In the year 1901 the first widget was created. This widget only stood 2 inches in height but through many revisions grew to 6 inches. The power of the 2 inch widget was much less then the later versions.

Buy Now

Widget manufacturing all started in 1205 by a lonely hunter. History, history, history…

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The search engines will see all the content of the page containing history, external links to historical or additional information sites. The page may scroll for ever, but the potential buyer will have already been prodded to buy. At the same time, if the potential buyer decides to read further, the content will be logical and informative.

Unfortunately there isn’t much history on “nail clippers” if that’s what I were selling. Then again, maybe there is lengthy historical information about nail clippers.

If this is the case, there will surely be some tricksters playing with ways to rank high also. Hmmm.. Just thinking about this.


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Vincent Wilcox (a.k.a. KRAKR)
Drummer
My band: Letters Make Words

Have no intention of derailing the thread but I have a question on this hot topic of SEO and SEM.

If you go to Google and type in


Although the ads on the top, right hand side and those imbued in the pages all point to self-proclaimed SEO and SEM gurus. On the links that google returns not a one is for them, they are all about articles, blogs, suggestions, do and don`ts etc. If these `Gurus` are all that great and SEO actually works, how come they can`t get their sites to show up on any of the first ten pages of google? At that point I just got tired of looking for them so don`t know where does the first SEO guru shows up.

Maybe they ought to search for themselves and claim:

"I got myself listed on the 154th page of Google! as you can see I`m the first one there! you can hire me with confidence."  ;-)